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Another extreme helicopter issue

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  • #16
    Tell your boys that there are folks who want to put a bunch of BS in the BSA.. Your doing your best to keep it out of it. There are some things they can do ...

    Carry a rope in their back pocket, when boy starts on his high horse, say "10 seconds" throw rope down, and say "bowline.Tie it now."

    If outside, "find north, now".

    Toss the boy your compass, ask "what's the bearing to the next tree".

    If the boy knows his stuff, they can be annoyed. If he doesn't (more likely) then they'll know what the real rank is under the patch,

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    • #17
      I've made the point with a SM's minute. I'll show up with a few Eagle badges and ask who wants one. Invariable, a handful of newer guys will jump at the opportunity. I give them the patches and ask, "so what do you think their worth?" They'll offer some guesses but I'll pull out a receipt and tell them what the patches cost at the Scout Shop.

      I let that soak in for a few seconds then I'll go over to one of the Eagles in the troop (all who know the routine), point to his Eagle badge and ask, "Billy, what is that Eagle badge worth to you?"

      "It's priceless," he says.

      I'll go over to one of the ASMs and tap his Eagle square knot. "Mr. Smith, how much is your Eagle badge worth?"

      "I wouldn't take a million bucks for it."

      Then another ASM. "Mr. Jones, how much is your Eagle worth?"

      "Everything I have. If it weren't for being an Eagle Scout, I wouldn't have survived Vietnam."

      I start walking around the circle, collecting the badges and close with, "Gentlemen, how much will your Eagle be worth? Will it be worth a few bucks from the Scout Shop, or will it be worth what you put into it?"

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      • #18
        Twocub, can I borrow that Scoutmasters minute?

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        • #19
          ...Council of course refused to be involved...

          I would remind the DE of this when he comes around with FOS and his talk on how the council supports the unit.

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          • #20
            Skeptic,

            Growing up I had an unit in my district that was more adult lead than youth led. Being adult led, they had an advantage in that everything was planned towards advancement, and when things started going off schedule, adults intervened. Long story short, they won a bunch of awards at summer camp, they advanced faster, etc etc.

            The thing that kept us going was when we interacted with them. We could tell we were doing things the right way, mistakes and all, because we were in charge. When things happened, we dealt with it, not the adults. And when the key SM behind this left the troop, it folded. When my SM left, we were still around.

            My first SPL in the troop I Eagled in, when I asked him when I would know someone should get signed off for First Aid Skill Award told me, "when you would trust him with your life in the woods." And he related how in Scouting, everyone in the patrol is responsible for each other. And everyone in the troop, to a lesser degree, is also responsible for each other. By making sure Scouts actually master the skills they are suppose to have mastered in order to advance, you know who you can go to when things happen.

            So ask your charges, "Who would you rather get stuck in the woods with: an Eagle you have serious reservations with, or the First Class Scout you know has his act together and get get you out alive?"

            2Cub,

            Consider that SM Minute STOLEN -


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            • #21
              Free, to a good home.

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              • #22
                Don't discount that your scouts will be looking to how you handle this inequitable situation. If this kid gets his way (dads way) it can have corrosive effect on the morale of your boys. They will continue to do what they will do to advance, but they will be disappointed in you for not doing what a leader should do.
                Which is to be fair and administer justice.

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                • #23
                  I like twocubdad's response.

                  I would only add to the "Council of course refused to be involved" statement by asking what advancement paperwork was submitted for the adult to purchase the patches?

                  Just my $0.02

                  Rick

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                  • #24
                    Some councils don't require paperwork for rank patches.
                    Or just buy 'em on eBay.

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                    • #25
                      I was wondering the same thing as Nike: This Scout is going to have a problem with the dates on his Eagle application. That's assuming that they actually check them. I suppose this particular parent might not be above altering the dates, but if they are checked against National's records there would still be a problem.

                      As for how to handle this with Scouts in a different unit (assuming they even know about it) I think others have covered it.

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                      • #26
                        This whole matter will fall apart at the Council level if the dad persists. The Eagle application must be signed by the SM, I believe the CC, and the information (Ranks, Merit Badges, PORs) must be verified by Council before the EBOR can proceed. (At least this is the procedure in my council.) And this guy is a former Cubmaster? He's in for quite a surprise that no amount of "Lawyering" will work in his favor. The rules are pretty clear.

                        Twocubdad and Eagle92 have excellent ideas for dealing with this in front of your boys. Consider using their methods!(This message has been edited by FrankScout)(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

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                        • #27
                          It sounds like Dad has earned his ScoutLawyer badge.

                          I've seen this handled poorly myself. When the SM refused to approve a Scout for his Life award, his father, the CC, signed off on the advancement report by himself, without a BOR.

                          The Scout had most of his Merit Badges signed off by his father (not approved by the SM) and the SM again refused to approve the Scout for his Eagle.

                          In the case at hand, I think a SM conference would be in order to explain to the Scout which badge of rank he is entitled to wear by the Troop records, and to explain that if he wears a higher badge of rank he will be suspended from attending Troop Meetings and activities.

                          I'd also seriously consider suspending the Scout from the troops because of the father's behavior. The Scout and his father aren't worth destroying your troop program and the standards of your troop.

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                          • #28
                            What's it matter Dad will go to the scout shop and buy the patch and award it when he thinks he earned it.....

                            Then he will tell the world that he is the worlds youngest eagle and put it on all the college apps and such.....

                            He will be for all intents and purposes because nobody checks on such things....


                            Selling popcorn out front of the stores over the weekend, I was amazed how many men claimed to be Eagles.....


                            Mid Saturday afternoon I started this......You are thats great, our troop is in trouble and could really use another younger adult eagle scout to help with outings.....No takers


                            Sunday I made up an info sheet with my phone number and meeting location and time.....I also outlined the adult leadership needs...I handed out about 6 of them.....No phone calls we will see tonight if we get anyone showing up.

                            Calling their bluff or using the opportunity to recruit more potential leaders????? don't know.

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                            • #29
                              Calooh,

                              My observation is that most "extreme" helicopter parents with advancement issues are homeschooling parents. My pack had den chief brothers who were in that boat. They started in one troop, then they became "Lone Scouts" and Eagled in another troop. Their mother was the MBC for most of their merit badges.

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                              • #30
                                I guess I'm too simple about this, I've read your post three times Skeptic and I'm still not sure when this scout was in your troop. Were you troop number two?

                                Anyway, Scouts are pretty smart and I don't think you need to worry about that big of an explination. This is so far off the wall, they get it. In fact, I would guess what they really want to know is how much the adults get it. I once did a SM Minute similar (almost identical) to Twocubs and it made the point point pretty clear.

                                Barry

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