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  • Another extreme helicopter issue

    We have an 11 year old, home schooled, in our district that is already into his third troop in a year. He came into scouts at the absolute minimum age, possibly even fudged it a bit, since his father was the webloe leader and cubmaster. While in cubs he "earned" every award available at every level, even though few other cubs in his unit earned many of them. Okay, maybe he just worked harder.

    He was wearing a First Class patch within two months of entering a troop, but he had not had a board even for 2nd yet. His father just bought the patch and said he completed everything, so he should get to wear it. When questioned about the unit activity participation, he said that they did their own in his backyard with a couple of his patrol members from the cubs, and they did some service with another cub; now there was no tour permits filed, and the service (?) was not a troop activity. When they refused to approve the ranks, his father moved them to another troop. Now, the boy, who just turned officially eleven about 6 weeks ago is wearing a Life patch, even though the troop they moved to has not had a board or approved it; similar situations. The father, you guessed it, a lawyer, intimated legal questions in their not "immediately" approving this advancement, even when it was pointed out that a couple of things were not approved by anyone authorized to do so, and that even if they did, the unit has 30 days to arrange the board.

    So, now they are in the process of, or have, moved to troop number 3. Will be interesting to see how this one works, as this troop has a tradition of not letting people slide; but the current SM is also a lawyer and met with the dad a couple of times prior to now.

    Council of course refused to be involved. And the father has pointedly informed all that his "son's goal" is to become the youngest Eagle ever. For a while, the scout seemed willing to step back and work in the system, but now he has become just as demanding as his father. This is making him less than the most popular boy in the unit, and is also making scouts question how he is allowed to get away with this, when our own scouts are not. They all know each other, and the scout is beginning to "lord" it over the others who are pretty much where you might expect after a couple of years, or close to it, while he has less than a year. Yes, I am aware the time frames actually do not match up for Life quite yet, but even that is questioned by dad, as he claims the first class was finished exactly 30 days into his scout participation, and that the dates should have been adjusted to when he "completed the signed" items in the book.

    Whatever, the real issue is how do we make it palatable to our own scouts who we are trying to have actually "earn" ranks and so on? Talk about personal pride? Talk about how we should listen to conscience? Any thoughts?

    Meanwhile, waiting for the call from dad to me, though I do not see it happening, as he likely knows better.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

  • #2
    What is your position again?

    While I wait for that answer, I will say this father is doing his son no favors in life, and making an arse of himself.

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    • #3
      Scoutmaster of another district unit who has boys who know this one. They have started asking pointed questions, and am not sure if my current approach of basically self pride is doing the job. In many years, this is most extreme one I have seen; hardly saw any until about 10 to 12 years ago.

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      • #4
        I'd love to sit on that EBOR.
        If the latest SM is tough like you say the boy won't last long there either.

        He'll be Eagle though, I guarantee it.



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        • #5
          Won't Scoutnet choke on this kid's Eagle Application when the dates don't match up to the programmed minimums?

          As for Skeptic's Scouts, I suppose you can ask them if:
          1. They think the boy is doing all of that by himself?
          2. They think he is having any fun?
          3. They think he is learning anything or having any sort of experience akin to theirs?
          4. There's more to earning Eagle than just getting a patch faster than anyone else?


          You could have quite an discussion about honesty, integrity, loyalty, working as a good member of a patrol and troop, really learning about something as opposed to pencil whipping, etc.
          (This message has been edited by Nike)

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          • #6
            What sort of forewarning did troop #3 have? And if the answer is "not much", why not?

            With a full understanding of the situation, I would not have accepted the family. Never had a situation like this, but I've had a couple Scouts with know-it-all dads who started dictating terms before their boy joined. "Hope you find a troop which will agree to that" is my standard reply.

            And if the Council Advancement Committee doesn't see this as an issue where they need to be involved, I don't see where they should be involved in anything.


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            • #7
              "As for Skeptic's Scouts, I suppose you can ask them if:
              1. They think the boy is doing all of that by himself?
              2. They think he is having any fun?
              3. They think he is learning anything or having any sort of experience akin to theirs?
              4. There's more to earning Eagle than just getting a patch faster than anyone else?


              You could have quite an discussion about honesty, integrity, loyalty, working as a good member of a patrol and troop, really learning about something as opposed to pencil whipping, etc."

              I have nothing extra to add. Just wanted to support Nikes statement.

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              • #8
                I wouldn't know where to begin on this one. From what I read, this dad is a mental case and needs professional help. I hope he gets it. As long as I have BSA Rules and Regs, Policies And Procedures on my side, I wouldn't be intimidated, lawyer or not.

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                • #9
                  Ya know with dad a lawyer and trying to intimidate the Troop leadership....

                  I would let the SE and DE know and throw them out of the troop....and not look back....


                  You understand this is a no win situation.....


                  I would follow up with a couple of discrete conversations with SM's likely to be their next victim.....



                  Sentienel.....Laywer type folks look after their own.....Far as favors go....this boy will not want for a thing in life....He will get a BMW or porche when he is 16......Dad will get him into the right college for the right job....

                  We have lots of college interns where I work....Most are from the VP level and up.....Had one a few years ago who refused to do what I asked him....unboxing new equipment in a hot warehouse....I was doing it and he was sent to help.....I asked him again...So I called my department director who came down and sent him home.....Well he was back in 15 minutes with dad in tow....I was told I was out of line asking a 20 year old college student to work in the 100 degree warehouse,Now keep in mind I had be in there all day...... the director found him something else to do in the AC.......

                  That night when he was changing to go home.....he said something I will never forget and probably flavored my hate for the rich for ever.....

                  Rich folks take care of their own....


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                  • #10
                    This story is incredible.

                    Unless other sides of it were completely at odds with the allegations, or unless there were some astonishingly mitigating circumstances, one would be inclined to refuse to cooperate with this man's enterprise and to tell him why.

                    The opening statement is " We have an 11 year old, home schooled.." What is the significance of homeshooling to this story that it rates prominent mention among the handful of handful of facts we learn?

                    Should we be on the lookout for cheating among homeschoolers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A few questions and comments. Just because the dad signed off the book means nothing. NOTHING. Did a leader sign the book, or an authorized appointee sign the book? Did he ask for and have a scoutmaster conferences? Did he pass his Tenderfoot Second Class, First Class, Star and Life Boards of review? Is that paperwork propery filed with National? What about all those merit badges for Star?

                      Let dad buy an Eagle badge and show him the door.
                      Been there, but nothing as extreme as this.
                      Hate to say it, but this is making a case for restricted merchandise.


                      Callooh! Callay!, I didnt read any prejudice in stating a fact that the boy (scout?) is home schooled. Half my troop is home schooled, and they are all good scouts.
                      (This message has been edited by Second class)

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                      • #12
                        The only reason noting home school is that he does not have to accountable for his educational level, or compete directly with other students. Most home schooled kids seem to be pretty bright, but they do often feel more privileged than those in public, or even private schools. It was not a slam at home schooling per se; just another part of the picture. Why is he home schooled? Because the parents did not like his results and interactions in the public school.

                        I find it interesting though that my question has only been responded to by a few, while everyone else seems focused on the boy and parent. My issue is how to fairly guide scouts in my charge that see him getting away with stuff. Thanks for the ideas and comments that have so far addressed this.

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                        • #13
                          to guide your charges?????

                          So are they whispering in the dark???? What are they asking?????

                          A simple review of the oath and law should fix it.....

                          Ask them if they think he earned it.....

                          Then show them that the dates make it impossible.....

                          No POR No BOR No SMC.......

                          First class in two months is impossible......Life in a year is impossible......


                          A colorful strip of cloth is all it is to the boy nothing more....(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

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                          • #14
                            If there was no paperwork submitted (Advancement reports?) then how can he even fill out the Eagle application? The registrar will check the dates...perhaps he/she can be "tipped off"...

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                            • #15
                              "Whatever, the real issue is how do we make it palatable to our own scouts who we are trying to have actually "earn" ranks and so on? Talk about personal pride? Talk about how we should listen to conscience? Any thoughts?"


                              Sounds like you've got a proper handle on this... as you say... actually earn ranks and take satisfaction in what one can do and has done rather than in a patch that one can buy
                              ... anyone can put on a hat and boots... that doesn't make him a cowboy.

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