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  • What do we (Scouters) expect from Eagle Scouts.

    What do we expect from our Eagle Scouts? Besides the obvious requirements such as merit badges, Eagle Projects,ect. What do we expect from them? What kind of men are we trying to shape with our programs? In the case of Eagle Mill Scouts "tarnishing the reputation of Eagles" what solutions can we collectively come up with? Ultimately we cannot change what other units do, but we can ensure that we produce Eagle Scouts who exemplify what we expect Eagle Scouts to be.

    Overall Standards are going to vary from Troop to Troop and place to place. I feel like for the most part though, Minimal work is frowned upon.

    Growing up in the current era of Scouting, being an 18 year old Eagle and Scouter, I'm quite interested in hearing everyone's opinions on the matter, and how to produce Eagles who exemplify the Scout Oath and Law.

    Yours in Service,
    Sentinel(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

  • #2
    My troop has an active program. The scouts reguarly use scout skills during camping and outings. Scouts regualarly are teaching other scouts skills. Ropes and knots are used not just talked about. Most of the Eagles the troop generates are 15+ years old. They have stuck with program. I would like to see more real leadership from some of the canidates but they have met the POR requirements.

    I think the rank of Eagle will mean more for them as they age. Once they leave the troop and have to deal with the rest of the culture, they will find that they have skills in planning, leadership, teamwork, follow thru, being held to a standard, and expecting conseqencse for their actions.

    My oldest earned Eagle about 18 months ago. He is more proud of being an Eagle than he was about earning it. Like all true accomplishments, the road to success is difficult. He is seeing a real reward now with respect from others.

    I expect him to continue to live the ideals of scouting the rest of his life even when he is not wearing a uniform or activiely registered. I hope he has internalized the teachings and walks the walk.


    • #3
      What you can't do:

      1) Add any additional requirements than what is published in the annual Boy Scout Requirement Book to obtain the rank of Eagle

      2) Delay a Scout's advancement by adding requirements or refusing BORs or Scoutmaster Conferences if he has completed the requirements.


      • #4
        I expect an Eagle to know his skills, to be able to stand up for himself and defend what he thinks is right. It is called charactor

        If somehow, someway, a stumbling black is placed in his way that is beyond those requirments, then I have more respect for the lad who says no, you cant do this even if you are older and in a position of authority, that is not right

        and his fights it within the system. Its what we tell each other all the time


        • #5

          To make earning the Eagle badge a task that really requires the boy to use all his skills he has learned in his scouting experience in leadership, organizational skills, and scoutcraft to accomplishing something really beneficial to his community and giving him the feeling of real pride and accomplishment.

          Too many Eagle candidates today get weak, pitiful projects approved, get by with less than minimal effort passing the requirements, resulting in no real sense of what being an Eagle means, or even caring. To hear an Eagle say "It was so easy to become an Eagle scout" just shows we have a real problem. My biggest pet peeve is why some leaders rush their boys through their scouting experience so quickly so they can brag about how many 13 year old Eagles are in their troops. Scouting is all about the experience and not a game to see how fast you can finish.


          • #6
            Comfortable in the outdoors

            I expect him to be able to start a fire with out petroleum or alcohol....

            I expect him to be able to use wood tools in a safe and effective manner....

            Too be able swim and have the ability to perform water rescues

            Too be able to find his way in the woods when lost.

            Too be able to manage most injuries to self and others while in the field or at home.

            Too be able to plan an outing or event including budget.

            Too be able to work with guidelines and complete tasks as requested.

            Too enjoy his fellow scouts...

            Too have the spirit of service to others.

            Too be able to look you in the eye when speaking to you.

            Too be able to communicate effectively, whether with fellow scouts or adults.

            Too understand community and who and what it actually involves..

            Too be respectful
            (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)


            • #7
              bnelon: I'm not talking about Eagle Scout requirements, I'm talking about Character development. What kind of people are we trying to produce with the program?

              Old Grey, I approve of what you said wholeheartedly.

              Baden, I think you have good points. What is an example of a weak Eagle Project? I agree that we should want our Eagle Scouts to feel as if they accomplished something. Even better is the Leader, Citizen and Outdoorsman that an Eagle Scout should be.

              (This message has been edited by Sentinel947)


              • #8
                Yah, bnelon44, what did that have to do with da question?

                Sentinel947, I always tell troops that ask me a question like that that they should have a clear image in their mind of what they want to achieve with a lad not just at Eagle, but at each of the ranks. What's a Life Scout look like? What's a First Class Scout look like?

                A lad gets to Eagle in steps, eh? Not all at once. I reckon the fight is usually won or lost in the boy's first four years. If T-2-1 were a spoon-fed "gimme", then da troop probably lost at that point. Yeh get there by usin' all the methods. Advancement, to give him a real hurdle to work toward developin' skills and changing behaviors. Adult Association to provide coaching, Youth Leadership to provide example and challenge and an ethic of service, Outdoors because we learn da most when confronting new things when da consequences aren't insulated by civilization, Values because sayin' the words and thinkin' about what yeh stand for counts, Uniform because it's a way of showin' what yeh stand for and who yeh stand with. And so on.

                I reckon da easiest test for Eagle, though, is similar to the one Eagledad proposed, eh? The lad should be someone who is recognized by his troop community and the broader community as a young adult of whom they are justifiably proud. If the adults like the fellow but his peers and younger boys in the troop do not (because he's been cold/bullying/absent, etc.), then that's not an Eagle. If his football coach loves him but half of da ASMs say "Who?", that's not an Eagle.

                Basementdweller's thoughts in da other thread I thought were good as well, eh? If he's the sort of person for whom everyone who has worked with him would say "I would hire him right now over other candidates". A fellow who claimed to be active and responsible by only showin' up once in three years I would not hire even if there were no other candidates! That's not an Eagle.



                • #9
                  BadenP, you emphasize "13 year old Eagles", but when I read the posts in this forum, the biggest issues seem to concern Scouts whose 18th birthday is looming on the near horizon (or has already finished looming.) The vast majority of the Scouts in my troop who make Eagle make it after their 17th birthday, probably about half in the last six months, and several have gone down right to the wire. That involves its own issues, of course.


                  • #10
                    I took a few boys backpacking awhile ago - 7 days of some real backcountry stuff. One I did not know, my son knew him from school. My son's statement, "don't worry dad, he's an Eagle."

                    The boy's father dropped him off at my house as we were heading up the road (4 hour drive to the trailhead). Dad said, "you need to check his gear?" I said, "nope - he's an Eagle. He either has it or knows how to do without it."

                    So to me an Eagle is someone I don't need to check on, micromanage, etc. I can give them a task and walk away - they will ask if they have a question or will take care of it themselves.


                    • #11

                      You can't expect more than what is in the requirements. Eagle Scouts are those who have passed the requirements. One includes Scout Spirit however we need to remember we are not canonizing them, we are reviewing if they satisfied the requirements. If they have, they have earned the rank. You can't really expect more.

                      If you want to ask a question in this realm, the real question is what do you expect of your Scouting program and how it influences the boys. That is though a different question than what you asked.


                      • #12
                        Great post Horizon. If I were still a SM, I would read your post word for word at my next SM Minute. Nothing needs to be added.



                        • #13
                          Thanks Bnelon! So yes, another question is "What do you expect of your Scouting program and how it influences the boys?"

                          bnelon, I am NOT advocating changing requirements, or denying people the rank of Eagle Scout, canonizing them, or anything else you've said. I believe when a Scout finishes the requirements, they are an Eagle. Your points about adding requirements, denying signatures or the like are completely correct. I am not arguing that.

                          HOWEVER, the POINT of the BSA is to "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

                          Whether we like it or not, Eagle Scouts represent the BSA program to the outside, SO,

                          How do we shape our boys to become Men, specifcally our Eagle Scouts, who make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes? How do we instill in them the values of the Oath and Law?

                          Obviously the answer is the Methods of Scouting. But when the Advancement aspect is the one getting all the love, and a forum full of Scoutmasters, Committee Chairpeople and Scouters are screaming about how Scouts, especially some Eagle Scouts, seem to exhibiting a lack of the ideals of Scouting, lack of outdoor knowledge or experience, they have fights with their Scoutmasters, and their Personal growth in the Oath and Law seems lacking, it begs my question,

                          How do we improve the other Methods of Scouting? How do we make the program better catch the "Minimialist" Eagle Scouts. How can we convince them in a way that is fun to do more? Attend more trips, lead more? Encouraging them to give more to their communities and troops?

                          I apologize if anyones eyeballs are bleeding...

                          Yours in Service,


                          • #14
                            What do I expect from Eagle Scouts? Their best effort.

                            Do Your Best is the first thing you learn as a Cub. It still applies.


                            • #15

                              Meet the intent of the requirements not the letter of the requirements.

                              Intent (IMO) = Master the skills, participate for real, do not expect anything in return for doing nothing, ability to take care of yourself and others in the outdoors, have learned to lead by(good)example, be willing to teach, understand the value of service to others, have pride in your unit, be respectful, do your best.

                              Letter (IMO) = One and done, lawyer your way through participation, expect something for doing nothing, be a liability on an outing, attempt (and normally fail) to lead but only if it serves your interest, be disinterested in or incapable of teaching other, use the unit to maximize your gain, be respectful if someone who can impact your advancement is looking, do as little as possible to get by.

                              Meet the intent of the requirement and you have an Eagle
                              Meet the letter of the requirements and you have someone wearing an Eagle patch.

                              Do I expect a scout to be 100% intent, no, not really, they are boys after all (but one can hope! ). I do however expect they are more intent than letter.