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  • Eagle Palm Board of Review

    I didn't want to further hijack LisaBob's thread, but I wanted to answer Gunny as well. This is the text of Gunny's post:

    "OGE, I agree with your definition. No really, no argument I do.

    By hypothetical way of example, if an Eagle Scout wanted a SM conference on his accomplishing the rest of the requirements for his first Palm, but he: 1) had never been seen on any camp out since his Eagle, 2)Came to one Meeting since his Eagle COH (1 meeting in sixteen), 3)Had not been on either of two Eagle work days for either of another Eagle candidates projects 4) Did not show up for any of several service projects 5) had previously stated a desire to help the SM in the transition to a boy-led troop but has only been around as stated above. And had had many messages left by but no conversations with the SM - the family in the hypothetical screens calls with religious fervor.

    But is a bright, engaging, charming youth with excellent social skills and a good and usable vocabulary should he still "Pass" in his Scout Spirit? The only thing he might be missing otherwise would be in "regular association with the SM". Or does he get held back until he has some measure of Adult association - Or does that get fulfilled in his Merit Badge work. I (hypothetically)never signed any of those blue cards by the way - assume the former SM did that part.
    No (hypothetically)there is no valid reason why he could not have been more involved.

    Could one say that some element of Scout spirit was lacking here? Could the Palm be denied? Under what grounds, if so, if any?"

    Ok, first we need to consider the requirements for a Palm, they are as follows:

    After becoming an Eagle Scout, you may earn Palms by completing the following requirements:
    1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm.
    2. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.
    3. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability.
    4. Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm.*
    5. Take Part in a Scoutmaster conference.
    6. Complete your board of review.

    When you read the requirements and consider the scout's situation, I would have a talk with the scout and ask how he fulfilled the requirements and then decide what to do. Many scouts think if you have 36 merit badges and 12 months to go to 18, they are assured of a Silver palm, but that isnt always so.

    Now, to add a wrinkle (sic!) I have a question. You find out that the scout, since his Eagle Court of Honor, has been working on a Habitat for Humanity House and he wanted to get it done before winter. He has lined up workers for all possible times the house can be worked on and he has coordinated all the work and workers himself. Everyone who knows him says he is a credit to the Troop, does he get the Palm?

  • #2
    I didn't catch the spin off until just now, thanks for doing it!

    Given that you have given me the requirements and a new wrinkle.
    My first answer is that Number 1 still hasn't been met.

    However, the strength of what you propose as his reason for the lack of involvement might sway me to sign off given that my CC concurs that there isn't a bad precedent being set here. (Getting some additional counsel on things is often a good idea)(Especially when you are a new SM)I would have preferred in your wrinkle that he had kept me informed of why he was SO unavailable - which is also the case in the hypothetical.
    Also, why didn't he ask the Scouts for assistance in this endeavor?


    • #3
      Ah, very good question Gunny, very good. I know that habitat for humanity has a restrition on the workers, they have to be 16 years old at least and perhaps he didnt want to set up a situation where younger youth would be left out. Good questions, now, as far as being active, lets see how BSA defines active:

      Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

      Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

      He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).
      He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.
      He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).
      The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

      Now, if the scout is registered in the Troop and has not been dismissed due to diciplinary reasons, then he is active. You are correct that he could/should have asked for help from the scouts, but why hadnt the scoutmaster or designee called the scout and asked how he is, what is he doing, what are his plans with the troop, that sort of thing. If you have a second class scout miss three meetings in a row, why wouldnt the patrol leader call him and get an idea why he is missing meetings, if the scout wants to quit, why not have the scoutmaster call him. Its what a business would do with a customer, why would we do less?


      • #4
        All true but how much effort am I required to put in to get in touch with him?

        In the hypothetical, the family screens calls religiously and I left numerous messages. Shouldn't he be responsible to respond to outreaches by myself and/or his PL and other Scouts? If he makes himself unavailable to even return phone calls then...
        Am I totally responsible for contact as the SM? Do I have to literally "Catch" him wherever he is at and if necessary chase him down if he sees me and goes the other way?

        I fail to see the Scoutlyness (that's probably not a word) of this approach. By either party. And if I have to physically chase a Scout on a regular basis to maintain the requisite contact because he won't return a phone call then it needs to be a business and I need to get paid.

        As regards the hypothetical, amazingly this individual may be supposed to have not been elected/assigned to any position.


        • #5
          Hi, Gunny,

          At the end of the day, it's discretionary judgment on your part. If the young man has stopped serving society, and is trying to forget the values Scouting instilled in him, it's pretty easy to find a way to refuse him.

          Of course, refusing him also means going through the processes in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 ... and having a cup of coffee with your District Advancement Chairman (someone has to be checking your 6).

          OTOH, if the young man is out doing great things, and you make the call that he's worth the Palm, go forward.

          I guess my key point is... use all your resources. Two of those resources are your friendly District Advancement Chair and your friendly (if you have one) UC. Always worth it buying them a cup of coffee and getting a local read on the situation.


          • #6
            Still no UC but they were working on recruiting at Roundtable so maybe we'll see some action there.



            • #7
              How much effort do you put in contacting him? Enough so when you tell the youth, hey I tried to contact you, you and he knows you did your best, no one can expect more.