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  • First Class Requirements & Merit Badges

    I am a new SM.

    I know that requirements for one merit badge cannot be used towards another (ie, you cannot use the same animal for the Pets merit badge as well as Dog Care)

    Question: can a boy use his requirements for rank advancement towards merit badge requirements? For example, can camping nights used towards First Class be used to fulfill the Camping merit badge (assuming the Scout has pulled the blue card prior to going camping, of course)?

  • #2
    These are all at the discretion of the MB counselor.

    Ed Mori
    1 Peter 4:10

    Comment


    • #3
      I am not aware of any general restrictions on reusing activities to count for multiple requirements. I do think it generally makes sense to use different things for Pets and Dog Care, for example, but I don't know that it's a requirement. There are a few specific examples where it is indeed documented that you may not double-dip (e.g. Hiking merit badge).

      I would say that almost always the Camping merit badge will count the camping nights used towards First Class. As Ed says, it's at the discretion of the counselor, but I'd have a hard reason seeing why not to count these.

      Comment


      • #4
        Unless specifically stated in the requirement there is nothing that says the same work cannot be used for differt recognitions as long as the work satisfies the requirement.

        Comment


        • #5
          AFAIK, the camping time for Camping MB could be all camping done from day one of being a scout.

          With some of the merit badges, you can't double dip. I seem to recall the Collections merit badge states that you can't use a stamp or coin collection, as there are separate merit badges for those.

          Comment


          • #6
            True, if double dipping is prohibited, it will state so specifically in the requirements for that particular merit badge.

            Comment


            • #7
              In all the merit badges I have counseled, I don't ever remember seeing anything that prohibited double or triple dipping. That said, it is still up to the MB counselor to accept or not accept it. Example - Swimming - A Scout went to summer camp June & completed requirement #5 for his swimming test. In October he signed up to do the swimming merit badge & met with his counselor. The Scout told his counselor he had completed #5 at summer camp. It is up to the counselor to accept this or make the Scout do it over again.

              Ed Mori
              1 Peter 4:10

              Comment


              • #8
                Our former scoutmaster used to send second class boys to get the first aid merit badge at MB fairs and summer camp, then count the MB requierments for first class first aid requirements where they overlapped. He thought the boys should get as much first aid training as possible real quick.

                I am not happy with that. I think the boys should earn the rank separately from the MB. The first aid knowledtge is designed to start with easy stuff and progress to better skills. However, I think if a young scout took the MB, I would let him, but still test him on his rank requirement knowledge. I would not just sign off on a rank requirment because the scout has the MB.

                Comment


                • #9
                  allangr1024

                  you do have something there. If a scout does the First Aid merit badge and comes back with a signed blue card, he has the First Aid merit badge is the counselor is registered et al. Now, if when you go to do the first aid rank requirements, you find the scout lacking in knowledge on topics the First Aid merit badge covers, you would need to teach the skills and then have a quiet conversation with whoever ran the merit badge day and with the counselor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    duplicate post

                    (This message has been edited by venividi)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      duplicate post.

                      (This message has been edited by venividi)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        First Aid - a subject near and dear to my heart, and one that am opposed to a doing as a do it once and sign it off approach - for either FC rqmts or MB. Especially not both at the same time.

                        I promote FA being an annual troop program topic, with all participating, whether or not FC requirements and/or MB's are already complete.

                        It's not about checking off a requirement or earning a badge. It is about reviewing often enough that they can perform the skills when needed (i.e., in an emergency). That is no time to be looking things up in a book because the last time they used a FA skill was at a MB class at summer camp when they were 12.

                        Red cross requires annual refreshers to keep their certification. I think it wise for troops to review FA annually also.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I know this is getting a little off the original topic, but having just had a group of boys in the troop go through the First Aid merit badge, this caught my eye. Requirement #1 of the merit badge: Satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first aid requirements for Tenderfoot Rank, Second Class Rank, and First Class Rank ranks.

                          To me, that implies that if the Scout does not have those already signed off in their book, they have to demonstrate them to the counselor. In our situation, the counselor is also an ASM, so with a couple of the younger Scouts, once they had demonstrated those requirements, he signed them in the book.

                          Technically double-dipping, but in this case the merit badge seems to require it!

                          Just an observation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Does anyone know the 1st Class Scout requirements from the 3rd ed. of Handbook for Boys (1927)?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              tdfoxsr736 writes:

                              Does anyone know the 1st Class Scout requirements from the 3rd ed. of Handbook for Boys (1927)?

                              The third edition is significant in the history of Traditional Scouting because it was the last time that BSA First Class rose to the standard of Baden-Powell's real-world test of Tenderfoot through First Class Scoutcraft skills called the "First Class Journey" (requirement #5).

                              Requirement #4 is also interesting because it contradicts the usual "advances in technology" justification for the dumbing-out of signalling. The "Manual Alphabet for the Deaf" is at least as useful to a Scout now as it was then; and if practical usefulness was the justification for signalling, then why the "Indian Sign Language Code" option?

                              Here is a quick scan of the 32nd printing.

                              Kudu

                              (1) At least two months' service as a Second Class Scout and be able to identify the rank, length of service and position of leadership of Scouts and local Scouters by means of their Badges and Insignia.

                              (2) Swim fifty yards. (Jump overboard, feet first into water slightly over his head, swim twenty-five yards, make a sharp turn about, and return to the starting point.)

                              (3) Earn and deposit at least $2 in a public bank or other savings institution (premiums paid on life insurance, are accepted if earned), or plant, raise and market a farm crop or earn and contribute at least two dollars or the equivalent to the family budget or to welfare work in the community.

                              (4) Send and receive a message by Semaphore Code, including conventional signs, thirty letters per minute, or by the General Service Code (International Morse) sixteen letters per minute, including conventional signs; or by the Indian Sign Language Code, thirty signs per minute; or the Manual Alphabet for the Deaf thirty letters per minute.

                              (5) Make a round trip alone (or with another Scout) to a point at least seven miles away (fourteen miles in all), going on foot, or rowing a boat, and write a satisfactory account of the trip and things observed.

                              (6) (a) Tell what First Aid is and what are its limitations. (b) Review Second Class First Aid requirements including demonstrations. (c) Show what to do for-(1) frost-bitten foot; (2) snake bite on hand; (3) mad dog bite; (4) heat exhaustion and sunstroke, describing difference in appearance. (d) Tell what to do for-(1) internal poisoning from food or drug; (2) freezing; (3) poisoning caused by poison ivy, poison sumac, or poison (e) Show how to-(1) use triangular bandage as sling, and as directed for four of the following injuries-head, eye, hand, chest, hip, knee, foot (in each case with dressing over wound); (2) apply splint to broken upper arm and place properly in cravat sling; (3) immobilize broken collar bone; (4) use neckerchief over shoe to support sprained ankle; (5) apply finger pressure (digital) to control arterial bleeding of wrist, ankle and temple; (6) apply tourniquet on upper arm and upper leg at correct pressure points, and (7) control venous bleeding below knee. (f) Explain necessity for immediate use of finger pressure control of bleeding; its advantages over tourniquet, and danger and necessary precautions in use of tourniquet. (g) Demonstrate with another person: (1) four-hand carry and (2) blanket or coat-litter carry; (3) a two-man carry with a chair; (4) with three other persons, method of lifting and transporting through a door and through a narrow passage a man who is unconscious the Scout himself acting as captain of the team; (5) Fireman's drag (h) Describe symptoms of various degree of shock, when to expect and how to deal with them.

                              (7) Prepare and cook satisfactorily in the open, using camp cooking utensils, at least one of each of the following three classes of food, as be directed: (1) Eggs and bacon, hunter's stew, fish, fowl or game (2) pancakes, cornbread, biscuit or "twist" baked on a stick; (3) oatmeal or other hot cooked cereal. Give an exact statement of the amount and cost of materials used, and the number of persons intended to serve.

                              (8) Read a map correctly, and draw from field notes made on the spot, an intelligible rough sketch map, indicating by their proper marks important buildings, roads, trolley lines, main landmarks, principal elevations, etc. Point out a compass direction without the help of the compass.

                              (9) Use properly an axe for felling or trimming light timber; or produce an article of carpentry, cabinet-making, or metal work, made by himself; or demonstrate repair of a decaying or damaged tree. Explain method followed.

                              (10) Judge distance, size, number, height and weight within 25 percent.

                              (11) Be able to identify in the field (1a) 10 species of trees or plants, including Poison Ivy, noting such characteristic things as bark leaves, flowers, fruit, and scent; or (1b) 6 species of wild birds noting such characteristics as plumage, notes, tracks and habits; or (1c) 6 species of native wild animals, noting characteristic form, color, call, track and habits. (2) Be able to point out the North Star, and be able to name and point out at least 3 constellations of stars.

                              (12) Furnish satisfactory evidence that he has put into practice in his daily life the principles of the Scout Oath and Law.

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