From: Rick Cordray (rickc@IMAGE-TECH.COM)
Date: Sun Nov 07 1999 - 02:08:40 CST
Sorry I can't provide chapter and verse of the rules and regs. How about a
conversation with a figure of authority instead? I had a conversation about
a week ago with one of our council staffers regarding liability insurance
and tour permits.
To paraphrase his comments (probably based on some unspecified rule or reg),
the liability insurance covers adult leaders and participants during
"approved" activities. An approved activity is anything that serves the
purposes of Scouting and is not prohibited, regardless of whether a tour
permit was filed. So, a troop advancement campout or trip to summer camp is
an approved activity and is covered with or without a tour permit, but a
hunting trip for Boy Scouts is not approved even if you fool somebody into
signing a tour permit. However, a tour permit serves several other purposes
and is to be strongly encouraged for all outings. In a situation where
there is a liability claim, a properly filed tour permit can provide a large
amount of backup information in your defense. For example, if you have an
outing with an aquatics accident, you are better off with a filed tour
permit showing you properly prepared for Safe Swim Defense than with no tour
permit.
I was a defendant in a (non-Scouting) liability lawsuit a few years ago, and
basically the insurance lawyers were prepared to defend me vigorously if
they could get a settlement less than the limits of the policy. If the
likely judgement were headed higher than my policy limits, they were quite
frank about it - they would contribute the amount of my policy limits to a
fund for the settlement and wish me good luck because at that point they had
satisfied their obligation and were only going to lose money on the deal.
Following that incident, which I escaped without financial ruin, I added a
high limit umbrella liability policy to my insurance, and I strongly
recommend everyone else does, too. I want those lawyers sweating to defend
the millions their company stands to lose if I have another liability suit!
So file the tour permits completely and properly. If you ever have to use
the liability coverage, you're going to need every friend you can get, and a
proper tour permit is your friend.
I'd like to say a few words on behalf of "conventional wisdom", which has
been taking a beating here recently. I'd also like to make a distinction
between "conventional wisdom" and "scouting urban legends". I think of
"conventional wisdom" in this context to mean policies and practices which
we are all reasonably familiar with and believe that they could or should be
written down. The comment about BSA going out of its way to avoid defending
volunteers sounds like "urban legend" to me, and certainly would not be
written down as policy.
Admittedly, some of the operating rules for units and procedures for doing
things in Scouting could be written down more clearly and in easier to find
locations. However, some of the arguments in this forum have picked things
apart in great detail and debated rulings to cover fairly unique situations.
A Scouting unit is like a combination of a family, a business, and a sports
team all rolled up together, with the complexities in operations and
personalities of all of those. I'm certain that a set of rules complex and
complete enough to cover every situation could not be written. In my past
role as a troop committee chairman I was explicitly responsible for
"interpreting local and national policy to the troop", and in my current
role as district chairman, I'm responsible for "supporting local and
national policies, procedures, and practices". (From "Troop Committee
Guidebook" and "Highlights for the District Chairmen") With all the
nuances, loopholes, and local variations possible in interpreting the
policies of Scouting, how can I satisfy the responsibilities of my job?. I
think it is relatively easy: when I "interpret" and "support" policies to
volunteers and units, I recommend choices along the lines of "conventional
wisdom". By this I mean that, even in the absence of explicit policies, a
troop is likely to be more successful if it follows the model of other
successful troops through the years. The fact that something is legally
allowed does not mean that it is a wise thing to do.
Rick Cordray
ASM, Troop 573, Woodinville, WA
District Chairman, North Lakes District
Chief Seattle Council
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:20:49 -0500
> From: "Bruce E. Cobern" <bec@PIPELINE.COM>
> Subject: Re: $$$ - Vehicles - Organizations
>
> (snip)
> Finally, there is lots of "conventional wisdom" about this coverage as
well,
> including the fact that the BSA will look to find any loophole to avoid
having
> to defend a volunteer, and that the policy requires all sorts of things,
like
> tour permits, to be valid.
(snip)
>
> So, do you have any authoritative cites to support the conventional wisdom
on
> either ownership of property or the liability insurance?
