> How about 3 hours of community service...like, say, cleaning up the
> camping equipment before the next meeting? With his dad's help.
> Your Cub's problem is his dad, not his own moral code. Working on the
> unit's equipment will spread the work and allow him to earn the patch
> gracefully.
>
I doubt the cub was given any choice in the matter. I think
the DAD should be spoken to, but the cub should get the patch.
--
Pete McMullen Hate Spam? http://spam.abuse.net/spam
pete@basilisk.org Support the Cause http://www.cauce.org
http://www.basilisk.org
Cubmaster, Pack 167
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:00:28 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Bowman <mfbowman@USSCOUTS.ORG>
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From: Michael Bowman <mfbowman@USSCOUTS.ORG>
Subject: NCAC PowWow
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For those of you in the Mid-Atlantic Area:
The National Capital Area Pow Wow will be held on November 20, 1999. This
annual event usually attracts as many as 1200 Cub Scouters from seven
states. Information about this event can be found at:
http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/training/cubscouts/powwow.html
which is on the brand-spanking new NCAC Website.
We are proud of this new website. This website was a long time in the
making and designed with a great amount of input from volunteer Scouters,
web design professionals, and members of the community. Heck, they even
asked me for advice. :-)) This website is in a sense a symbol of the
cooperative effort that makes Scouting great.
Mike
Mike Bowman, Vice President
U.S. Scouting Service Project, Inc.
Website: http://usscouts.org
E-Mail: mfbowman@usscouts.org
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:10:21 -0500
Reply-To: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
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From: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Places to stay in or around Mystic, CT
X-To: Ted Aamland <taamland@ZACKPAINTING.COM>
In-Reply-To: <01BF14BF.57F44AC0@TED>
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Ted,
I'm not from that area, but I've passed through there a couple times with
my troop. Here are a couple of ideas...
---------------------------------------------------------
New London Naval Submarine Base
Groton, Connecticut
Public Affairs Office -- 860/694-3914
This is home to the U.S. Navy's Submarine School. They will host Scout
groups. They have the Nautilus submarine open as a floating museum, which
the kids love. They also did a special training demonstration for us
where they taught the boys how to repair steam pipe with a "strongarm",
then took us to the training room where they simulated a sub being
attacked. We watched from the control room. That was fantastic. Great
meals at the galley, super cheap cost.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. Coast Guard Academy
New London, Connecticut
Public Affairs Office -- 860/444-8270
Across the river from the New London Naval Submarine Base. They have a
tall masted ship (the U.S.S. Beagle I think) which Scouts can tour if it
is not out at sea on a training mission. Tours of the campus. We've
never stayed there, only day visit. I think they have a campsite or
building available.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hammonassett Beach State Park
Madison, Connecticut
Main office -- 203/245-2785
We just camped here in August. Very large campground, nice facilities,
with a swimming beach on the Atlantic Ocean.
Arrived late at night, left early next morning. Rush, rush. We didn't
have much time there, but it seemed like a well maintained park.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There may be other places closer to Mystic. Connecticut isn't that big so
I assume these locations would be close enough.
Good luck on your trip.
YIS,
Cliff Golden
Scoutmaster Troop 33
DeKalb, Illinois
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Ted Aamland wrote:
> Hi all,
> My troop is planning a trip to Mystic Connecticut this year and I am wondering if anyone knows of any good places to stay in the area. Naval bases, Council camps, etc. Contact information would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> -Ted Aamland
> Asst. Scoutmaster
> Troop 31
> Port Reading, NJ
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:32:53 -0400
Reply-To: Steve Hoar <shoar@INFINET.COM>
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From: Steve Hoar <shoar@INFINET.COM>
Subject: Patches and Boy/Cub Scout Campouts
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJPBMGLMBHIHCPHOPGEBOCDAA.scottpat@netdoor.com>
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At 02:13 PM 10/12/99 , you wrote:
>The next most important thing to a Cub Scout and many Boy Scouts after a
>Campout is a Patch. In Cub Scouts most dads could care less about the patch
>from what I have seen.
>
Its unfortunate that this is being looked at as a punishment issue. Young
folks are very observent. In this instance I can relate
where I've been through it both with Boys Scouts and Cub Scouts.
WHen the boys who completed the weekend/event saw the guys
who didn't complete it get the award, they quickly raised a minor row
over the issue of fairness. 'Why did someone who did not complete
the event get the same reward as the folks who did.'
Remember, it was the scouts who raised the issue. Once one or
two do it, it tends to grow. On the next event there were a couple more
guys who wanted to leave early and still get the award. How do you say
no?
The final issue of fairness the scouts will raise deals with the pack up
after the event. They will ask why so and so was allowed to leave
early and not help with the pack up. Next event, more guys will try to
beat the clock.
Like I said, this was personal experience in boy and cub scouting.
Final solution was to lay down the policy loud and clear...leave early
and you don't get the award. It is an issue of fairness raised by
the boys not the leaders.
Stephen M. Hoar
Newark OH
shoar@infinet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:51:30 -0400
Reply-To: Dan Smith <dansher@SPRYNET.COM>
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From: Dan Smith <dansher@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject: Fw: Re: Training
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> Another thing you don't get from reading the material is interaction
> with other Scouters. I've gotten literally hundreds of tips during
> training that aren't covered by any of the publications. I've also met
> dozens of Scouters who are excellent resources in all sorts of matters -
> and know where to find resources outside of Scouting.
I rise again in support of Tee Forshaw. I recently conducted Commissioner
Basic Training for my new Unit Commissioners. Yes, we covered the material
laid out in the manuals but the awesome thing was to set in a room full of
Scouters with 10+ years of experience and listen to the ideas flow. As each
drew from his experience and added to the topic, each of us saw new ways to
deal with problems and new ways to help the units in our district deliver
the program to the boys. You just can't get that out of a video or a book.
YIS,
Dan Smith
Scoutmaster, Troop 221, Oakwood, GA
Chattahoochee District Commissioner, N.E. Georgia Council
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:04:29 EDT
Reply-To: DSearstoni@AOL.COM
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From: David Edward Sears <DSearstoni@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Patrol Box - Plans & Contents
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Doug,
Here is a web page that has a camping table and a patrol box plans.
YIS
Dave Sears
http://users.aol.com/lwjones/table.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:03:18 -0400
Reply-To: Mark Vance <mark.vance@AXOM.COM>
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From: Mark Vance <mark.vance@AXOM.COM>
Subject: unlist
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scouts-l unlist
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:12:13 -0700
Reply-To: Maryellen <marye@PACIFIC.NET>
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From: Maryellen <marye@PACIFIC.NET>
Subject: I'm Back!
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Hello Everyone!
I unsubscribe because I was going on vacation and I didnt think my ISP
would like all those letters sitting in my mailbox for 2 weeks!
Incase I havent met you before, my name is Mary Chadwick (Maryellen)
and I hold a few hats..
Troop Advancement
District Boy Scout Roundtable Chair
District Training Chair
District Secretary
District Program Chair
District Webmaster
Council Webmaster
Council Training Committee
Council Media and PR committee
Mom of a 1st Class Scout and a Joiner Scout
Wife of a husband who is very patient with all the above jobs :-)
Yes, you might say that we are looking to fill a few positions in out District
*g*
I am from the Yokayo District, Redwood Empire Council in beautiful
Northern California.
Glad to meet all the new friends here and hello again to all the people that
were around this campfire when I left :-)
Mary Chadwick
Redwood Empire, Yokayo District BSA
District Secretary, District Training Chair
Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner
Scouting for our Country's Future!
Yokay District web page and Calendar can be found at:
http://www.pacific.net/~ben/scouts.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:36:10 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Haar <rhaar@MI.VERIO.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Robert Haar <rhaar@MI.VERIO.COM>
Subject: Re: merit badge to merit badge
X-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b01b4292914459f@[208.8.163.44]>
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> Behalf Of Bob and Rusty Taylor
>
> some merit badges, especially the outdoor ones, seem better
> fitted to go in
> a sequence, rather than any old way, but I freely admit a Scout can take
> the badges anyway he wants, as long as the requirements allow this.
>
> that said, I would appreciate your thoughts on how badges that build on
> each other and/or are related, might best be sequenced. for example;
> backpacking,hiking, orienteering,cooking, camping, first aid, all have
> things in common, but some reach out to others as partial requirements.
I don't think that these form a linear sequence, but there are
some precedences ( a partial ordering rather than a total ordering
in mathematical terms).
In particular, First Aid strikes me a a good building block
because of the first aid and CPR requirements in many others.
Then Camping, Cooking and Hiking could be done at about the same
time.
Backpacking and Orienteering are logical follow-ons to Hiking.
Wilderness Survival buils on Camping.
just my opinion of course.
-----------------------------------------
Robert Haar
ASM, BSA T188, Rochester Hills, MI
email: rhaar@mi.verio.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:56:45 -0700
Reply-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
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From: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
Subject: too much stuff?
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basic training; what sort of resources/literature/etc. do you put out for
attendees at basic training? is there some sort of suggested list of
materials?
I can think of a lot of things that I would like to see out on the table,
but am concerned about overloading people who are already getting a lot of
information.
Bob Taylor
--- "If you build it, they will come."
/ \
----------- Bob Taylor Troop, 1590 Committee Chairman
(| @ @ |) Chief Seattle Council
| > | WE1-609-97 (A good old Buffalo)
" \_/ " worked my ticket and always an Eagle!
"""""
""" brtaylor@telebyte.net (home)
webpage: http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:56:44 -0700
Reply-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
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From: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
Subject: Philmont opening?
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lacking a better name, I call this the "Philmont Opening" for training, and
want to know if you think it would be appropriate for local level training,
like basic training courses. I saw this a couple of years ago at Philmont,
and was really moved by it.
1. get the newest Scout you can find, I mean REALLY new, like the
ink is still wet on his application. introduce him, who he is, that he has
JUST joined Scouting, give him the microphone, and have him read the page &
paragraph from the handbook about the adventure of Scouting.
2. get the mnost impressive Eagle Scout you can find, cite his
credentials (honor society, sports, academics, extra curicular activities,
etc) and have him talk about his Scouting career and how Scouting has
helped him.
then give the microphone back to the MC and have him make just a
couple of comments about here are the two ends of Scouting; a brand new
Scout and an Eagle Scout, and this is what happens when we deliver the
promise of Scouting.
your comments?
Bob Taylor
--- "If you build it, they will come."
/ \
----------- Bob Taylor Troop, 1590 Committee Chairman
(| @ @ |) Chief Seattle Council
| > | WE1-609-97 (A good old Buffalo)
" \_/ " worked my ticket and always an Eagle!
"""""
""" brtaylor@telebyte.net (home)
webpage: http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:19:03 -0400
Reply-To: Donald R Izard <dizard@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Donald R Izard <dizard@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: merit badge to merit badge
X-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b01b4292914459f@[208.8.163.44]>
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Bob and others,
Not so many years back, first aid MB was required for first class.
I felt then - that was OK - and I still think it should be one
of the firstr SKILL merit badges. As a scout begins to learn
to cook and camp - use woods tools - he - or his fellow scouts
may need first aid :) And first aid is a required pre requirement
for other MB's.
Next cooking - got to eat WELL at camp - really reuired in the
winter camping in NY. And camping next - since camping requires
a number of overnites. Hiking - then maybe back backing and/or
canoeing - before combined 50 milers! Followed by wilderness
survivial etc.
others ?
scouter don
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:30:09 -0400
Reply-To: Michael Bowman <mfbowman@USSCOUTS.ORG>
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From: Michael Bowman <mfbowman@USSCOUTS.ORG>
Subject: Re: mug identification
X-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b00b4285efd5fea@[208.8.163.49]>
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Bob,
I have to concur with Milt that the Region 7 Mug dates from the 70's and
most likely early 1970s. I have both the Region 7 Explorer Canoe Base patch
& neckerchief from about 1969 and the Region 7 BSA Canoe Base patch &
neckerchief from about 1973. The mug you described sounds like similar to
one I have that also dates to the same time period. As a kid growing up in
Indiana, Region 7's Canoe Base was the ultimate place to do Scouting and in
our area perceived as even better than Philmont. Getting a Region 7 patch
or a Region 7 Canoe Base patch was enough in those days to leave a Scout
giddy with delight. Your mug, if in good condition, is most likely quite
valuable as a collector item. You might be able to find a price on a
similar item at http://www.thestevensons.com to get an idea of its worth. I
would expect it to be at least $50.00.
Mike
Mike Bowman, Vice President
U.S. Scouting Service Project, Inc.
Website: http://usscouts.org
E-Mail: mfbowman@usscouts.org
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:35:00 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Mahoney <jamesmahoney@JUNO.COM>
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From: Jim Mahoney <jamesmahoney@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Description of Rank Badges
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Hello Everyone:
I have a somewhat urgent request for information I want to use in our
Troop court of honor this Thursday 10/14. I once saw a narrative
describing the different Boy Scout rank badges (I think it is used in the
Eagle ceremony) The one part I remember is the second class badge is in
the shape of a smile to remind the scout to be cheerful. If anyone has
this or can point me to a web site to get it I would greatly appreciate
it.
YIS
Jim Mahoney
ASM Troop 107 Allentown, PA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:00:54 -0400
Reply-To: David M Lock <kikape@JUNO.COM>
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From: David M Lock <kikape@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Boy Scout Lists
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I would like to subscribe to the 2001 Jamboree and to the OA list
services. I had an address for the jambo but it is apparently not
correct. Could someone please provide me with the email address and
commands to subscribe to these two lists.
Twood b greatly appreciated.
Kikape (David Lock)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:58:12 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Peterson <jpeterson@TZNET.COM>
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From: Jim Peterson <jpeterson@TZNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Cook Kit Thread
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Kansas Jim Peterson wrote:
>Have we gotten so far away from carrying our own gear and have so few
>events that ask a scout to cook his own food that we no longer
propose an
>individual cook kit be on a scout's personal equipment list?
In my opinion, there shouldn't be a lot of activities where each scout
cooks his own meal. We tried a weekend outing like that once. The idea
was to show the boys how much time and energy they saved by working
together as a patrol. One fire instead of 6, less dishes to wash, not
having to spend the time both cooking and cleaning up. We promote the
patrol method by encouraging the boys to cook and eat as a group.
YiS,
____________________________________________________
Jim Peterson Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 379, Blenker, WI
reply to jpeterson@tznet.com
I used to be a "Singing" Eagle - C-8l-97
***********Character***********Fitness***********Citizenship**********
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:08:49 -0500
Reply-To: Glen Rogers <beargr@SOUTHWIND.NET>
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From: Glen Rogers <beargr@SOUTHWIND.NET>
Subject: Re: Philmont memories--The Backcountry Campfires
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>They call themeselves the,
>"Tobasco Donkeys." Check it out at WWW.Campfiresongs.com!
My wife came back from the Powder Horn training at Philmont, a couple of
weeks ago, and brought home the Sawin' On the Strings CD, by the "Tobasco
Donkeys". I was really pleased to find the last entry as "Ashokan Farewell".
Some of you may have noticed the article in the Sep 99 'Scouting' magazine,
pg 10. Nice to hear a full rendition of the piece to put the words with.
My son really liked No. 11 Ugly Girl! It figures! ;) You got to hear it!
Thanks for the post 'Dirty Larry. I got to hear ya'll at Cypher's in '93!
I still remember watching the boys leave the 'Stomp' wiping tears from
their eyes after your closer of "Cat's in the Cradle".
Yours in Scouting,
Glen Rogers
...and a good old bear too...C294
SM T124, CC Crew007, Newton, KS, USA
Santa Fe Trail District, Quivira Council, Central Region, BSA
<beargr@southwind.net> <http://www2.southwind.net/~beargr>
*What do you mean there's no meeting tonight?*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:24:30 -0700
Reply-To: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Subject: Troop Committee Challenge
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I learned this summer of the forthcoming publication of a new training
package called the Troop Committee Challenge. It had an expected release
date of September 15th. Working with the Troop Committee Chair, we scheduled
an adult training weekend for the first weekend in October. I ordered one
copy of the course through my local council trading post, but not really
trusting them to get it on time, on September 15, I called National supply
and ordered one copy directly.
We had eighteen people sign up for the training weekend and we booked
training facilities and rooms at a Military MWR facility on Washington's
Pacific Coast. While the Troop Committee curriculum is recommended at 3
hours (I recommend 4.5), we made this an adult retreat weekend, no scouts or
other youth. We arrived at varying times Friday night, as our individual
work schedules allowed. (The facility is a 2 hour drive from home.) The
training was scheduled to start at 9:00 a.m. Saturday morning.
We actually had sixteen people show up. I served as one instructor and my
mentor and predecessor as SM was the other. We used two copies of the
"Challenge" materials and added to each package the new Committee Handbook
and a Boy Scout Handbook. We also supplemented with the new four part Troop
Program Resources.
Sticking pretty close to the curriculum outlined by the "Challenge" we
finished in 3 hours and 20 minutes. The evaluations we got were very good,
especially for course content and materials. After lunch, our Assistant
District Commissioner (also a member of the unit) gave Youth Protection
Training and certified us as YP Trained. We spent the rest of the afternoon
on the beach, and then we all went out to dinner to an Irish Pub. (The
committee Members wore their uniforms during the training, but switched to
"civvies" before we left for the pub.) We returned to the MWR facility
after dinner, played hearts and drank coffee and other things late into the
night. A leisurely drive back to town on Sunday, got us back by early
afternoon, all trained and refreshed.
One of my goals this year is training. Training for the boys, training for
the adults. Everyone needs to trained for the position they are in, and
maybe even for the next one they will hold (whether they know it or not).
I highly recommend that each troop get a copy of the Troop Committee
Challenge and use it, if not for a long weekend, for a full evening.
_____________
Thomas Heavey, Sr. ___ | |
heavey@nwrain.com \ \ / |
YN1-USCGR \ \/ * Tacoma, WA |
Scoutmaster Troop 299 \__ |
www.nwrain.net/~troop 299 |_______________|
WE-1-603-92 (I used to be an owl ...)
"Anyone can be great
because anyone can serve." --MLKjr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:35:15 MET
Reply-To: "T.Westerhof" <T.Westerhof@BIOLEDU.RUG.NL>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "T.Westerhof" <T.Westerhof@BIOLEDU.RUG.NL>
Organization: RuG Onderwijs Biologie
Subject: This Magic suget
In-Reply-To: <"mailhost.rug:146060:991013050826"@mailhost.rug.nl>
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>
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:00:25 -0500
> From: Carol Capps <ccapps@RSN.HP.COM>
> Subject: Re: Magic explained
>
> Cheryl Singhal wrote:
>
> > OK, but pick 3 or 5; 7 seems to work?
> >
> > Or organize the math like a mathematician and I _think_ it'll change the
> > outcome?
> >
>
> That would be (((X*2)+8)/2)-X=4
> (((3*2)+8)/2)-3
> (((6)+8)/2)-3
> ((14)/2)-3
> (7)-3
> 4
>
>
>
> Well - if you want to stay with only the English version of names
> rather than the Native language name . . . ;)
>
> How about . . . Djibouti ??? (next to Ethiopia)
>
> http://www.igad.org/Djibouti.htm
>
> Or the Dutch Antillies ?
That part of the Dutch mini commonwealth happens to be known
as Netherlands Antilles officially.
Skip all those Democaratic things, still an E
Elk? Eel? Eland?
If the Scout concerned chooses the Dutch Republic, (nobody said
the country had to exist still) and chooses an Ukari, you're busted
> *
>
> Don - I can't help it - I marries a social studie major
>
> On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Terry Slade wrote:
>
> > I might have allowed the Dominican Republic for the Sammy Sosa
> > fans, but I really wonder how many cub scouts will know what the:
> >
> > >>And D also Deutshland :)
> >
> > is for and how many people call it Germany. Really now, we are talking
> > about scouts and not college professors here aren't we?
> > Donald R Izard wrote:
>
> > Well - if you want to stay with only the English version of names
> > rather than the Native language name . . . ;)
> >
> > How about . . . Djibouti ??? (next to Ethiopia)
> >
> > http://www.igad.org/Djibouti.htm
> >
> > Or the Dutch Antillies ?
> > *
> >
> > Don - I can't help it - I marries a social studie major
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Terry Slade wrote:
> >
> > > I might have allowed the Dominican Republic for the Sammy Sosa
> > > fans, but I really wonder how many cub scouts will know what the:
> > >
> > > >>And D also Deutshland :)
> > >
> > > is for and how many people call it Germany. Really now, we are
> > > talking about scouts and not college professors here aren't we?
> > >
> >
>
> Yes, but some of us work with Troops/Packs with mixed nationalities who
> would KNOW Deutchland and Djoubti and Dutch West Indies and the DR.
> Others work with boys whose parents have been stationed there. If you've
> lived in Suomi, it's sometimes hard to recall that Finland is the same
> place.
>
> The parlor-trick is predicated on a Americo-centric, plain vanilla "I
> don't know anyone who has ever lived in a different state" audience, who
> will all do the math *the same way* and who will all get the required
> answer. Nothing _wrong_ with that, it just happens to not fit a number of
> audiences.
>
> And the rest of you kvetchers -- an animal whose name in ENGLISH begins
> with a U? (g)
>
> Cheryl
Ukari (VBG)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
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From: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
Subject: Patrol Box Plans
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Such "traditional" patrol boxes are not practical in my troop's experience.
We have about six of them made by some unknown dedicated Scouter(s) in the
past 45 year history of our troop. When fully loaded with patrol gear and
food, they are heavy, bulky, and almost impossible to carry and load into
vehicles by less than 4 boys. The boys also have trouble fitting the legs
on the box when setting up camp; each leg, if not carefully made, is
uniquely fitted.
Our recent solution to the patrol box problem, was to buy each patrol a
light weight aluminum camp table and one or two tough plastic stackable
storage boxes.
YiS,
Norman Turrill
ASM and Advancement Chair, Troop 203, Keystone Area Council
Hyas Skaha (The Raven)
--------------
Norman Turrill email: nturrill@netrax.net
voicemail: 717-531-4435 (office) or 717-534-2709 (home)
snailmail: 30 Hill Manor Drive, Hershey PA 17033
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:52:52 PDT
Reply-To: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
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From: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Cook Kits, Patrol Method and Low Impact Camping
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Jim,
You wrote: "Have we gotten so far away from carrying our own gear and have
so few
events that ask a scout to cook his own food that we no longer propose an
individual cook kit be on a scout's personal equipment list? "
The answer is defintely yes, but perhaps not always for the reasons
you are thinking.
When I was growing up in troop 85 in Cleveland,
Ohio, we regularly made individual meals in our mess kits. In order
to do so, each of the 15 or so scouts in my troop dug their own
little trench in the 8 or 9 foot diameter campfire circle and built
our own fires (only 2 matches were issued and one was expected
to be returned). We then meticulously soaped the OUTSIDE (never forget
when Chuckie decided to soap the inside...he was in the latrine
for hours it seemed), of the kit and cooked whatever meal was up.
My recollection was even that the cooking skill award required
individual cooking. (please! if I am wrong on this due to faulty
memory don't feel compelled to send me 300 mail messages about it,
it's a minor point).
Times have changed a bit since then.
We now utilize the patrol method for cooking. The requirements even
support that strongly. (If you think about it, it is a more practical
skill too. Someday these boys may be cooking dinner for their
families while their wives work late).
Most importantly we have gotten away from having 15 fire trenches.
We now utilize smaller fires in general and alternatives whenever
possible to minimize the impact on the campsite.
Our boys still carry their own gear. And when we backpack they divide
up the cooking gear and stoves. But, we have moved from an emphasis
on individual to the patrol when it comes to cooking.
All in all, I think both methods have merit. Boys can still practice
individual cooking in the Wilderness Survival merit badge, and they
get more experience in working cooperatively in their patrols.
Bob Costello
Cubmaster - Pack 765 Scoutmaster - Troop 775
Westland Michigan - Detroit Area Council
Certified Trainer - Huron Valley Girl Scout Council
Former District Training Chair for Cub Scouts
Staff member for Scoutmastership Fundamentals
email: BobC775@hotmail.com
I used to be a bobwhite....- C-4-96
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:06:20 -0500
Reply-To: Terry Slade <tmslade@ACTX.EDU>
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From: Terry Slade <tmslade@ACTX.EDU>
Subject: More magic
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> > How about . . . Djibouti ??? (next to Ethiopia)
> >
> > http://www.igad.org/Djibouti.htm
Somebody brought up this country as an answer to my submitted magic =
trick. Never having heard of it, I looked it up and there it was. =
Monday afternoon, while home for lunch, I caught the TV show Jeopardy and =
POOF, was I surprised. Djibouti was one of the categories in Double =
Jeopardy. Small world. YiS Terry
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 06:10:35 PDT
Reply-To: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
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From: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp
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Mark wrote....
I would have no problem withholding the father's patch, because HE
definitely broke the rule. You did not provide enough information, though,
to render an opinion on the boy's patch.
Was he whining and agitating to go home, or was he being cooperative and
helping strike camp until Dad loaded him into the car and drove off? In the
first case, I would withhold his patch also; in the former case, I would
not, as it would be punishing the son for the sins of the father.
======
Come on people...I have been reading this thread with some
frustration.
First of all, it is a patch! A peice of cloth with some embrodiery.
We aren't even talking about a rank patch, it's a camporee patch.
If your council/district is like most it will be available for
purchase next year at the trading post for a dollar or less.
Second, why do we all seem to get so hung up on "THE RULES". Have
so many of us forgotten why we are here? Are we here to _punish_
the sins (!?!?) of fathers and sons? Or are we hare to promote our
ideals? Are we here for character development and FUN for the boys.
Someone said it well in an earlier post...praise in public, criticize
in private...I can think of no better way to get a family OUT of
scouting than to embarass or "p" them off at a pack meeting. Then who
wins? The Cubmaster who stuck to his guns and upheld THE RULES?
The boy who had a great time camping, got denied a patch and now
isn't in Scouts? That Boys children who don't get into scouts because
he remembers the embarassment?
We need to stop trying to be judges and juries of parents and boys.
We all need to take a big dose of "get-over-it-already", especially
on the petty stuff and remember why we are in this. Or, some may even
need to review why they are in this. If you find yourself enjoying
the arguments about the rules...if you find yourself so hung up
on punishment of behaivior that you do so to the detriment of the
boy...if you are so inflexible that the black and white rules are all
that matters and not the heart of the boy...if defending your position
is your mark of importance and being right surpasses all....then...
maybe you need to find something other than scouting to do.
Before you all light your torches to flame me...stop and ask yourself
a few questions....Am I ticked off because he struck a chord in me?
do I see myself in that way and it angers me?
Bob Costello
Cubmaster - Pack 765 Scoutmaster - Troop 775
Westland Michigan - Detroit Area Council
Certified Trainer - Huron Valley Girl Scout Council
Former District Training Chair for Cub Scouts
Staff member for Scoutmastership Fundamentals
email: BobC775@hotmail.com
I used to be a bobwhite....- C-4-96
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:23:06 -0400
Reply-To: "Jim Miller Sr." <jjmsr@LSFCU.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Jim Miller Sr." <jjmsr@LSFCU.ORG>
Subject: Re: Boy Scout Lists
X-To: David M Lock <kikape@JUNO.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The easiest way to subscribe to Jambo01 is to go to:
http://www.bowline.org/html/lists.html
and fill out the form at the bottom of the page.
You can find the instructions for arrow-l at another page on the same
site:
http://www.bowline.org/html/other_lists.html
YIS
Jim Miller, Sr.
JJMSR@LSFCU.ORG
HTTP://www.stefford.com/scoutingresume/
ASTA #3105
> I would like to subscribe to the 2001 Jamboree and to the OA list
> services. I had an address for the jambo but it is apparently not
> correct. Could someone please provide me with the email address and
> commands to subscribe to these two lists.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:59:09 -0600
Reply-To: Jim Peterson <kupete@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU>
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From: Jim Peterson <kupete@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Cook Kit Thread (again)
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Hi Folks!
I knew this topic might prompt some discussion! :-)
Here are some thoughts:
I'm not proposing that we build seven fires for seven scouts (was that a
musical?).....no reason why, IF indeed you want to cook over a fire, you
can't build ONE fire and share it. But mostly, we use backpacking stoves
or at the most, a 2-burner propane.
Some folks mentioned backpacking weight, so I looked it up. The basic
folding cookkit weighs (according to Campmor) 9.6oz. I added up a the
weights of a Lexan bowl and cup. The total is between 10.0 and 10.8oz
depending on the model......and you STILL can't cook with 'em!
My thoughts on this are mostly skill-teaching related. Now maybe OUR
scouts are less able than most, but I'd almost bet you that many (most?) of
them have never ACTUALLY prepared an egg and bacon breakfast for themselves
(without burning it).....or cooked a hamburger(and made sure it was DONE).
Now before we go off on this, I'm not saying that we skip any of the T-1st
class cooking requirements and yes, we teach dutch oven cooking and offer
patrol-sized recipes, but let's face it, most of the time our kids heat up
spagetti-Os, hot dogs or ramen noodle cups. While all these culinary
delights have their place, seems to me that cooking a simple egg or
hamburger might also be a skill we could teach.
I dunno, but it seems to me that replacing the basic cookkit with "serve me
please" tableware has made our scouts less self-reliant and less.....uh,
Prepared.
BLUE SKIES!, Any day above ground is a good day!
Jim Peterson
BS RT Comm, Pelathe Dist
Heart of America Council Eagle Class of 1963
ASM, T-55, Lawrence, Kansas Brotherhood, Tamegonit Lodge
email: kupete@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Mic-O-Say: HW "Shieldmaker"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:13:33 -0700
Reply-To: Joe Macone <troop302@XOOMMAIL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Joe Macone <troop302@XOOMMAIL.COM>
Organization: Troop 302
Subject: Re: Dad broke the rule -
Michelle Johnson wrote:
>
> I would NOT make a big deal about it. At the
Pack meeting, I would award
> all the patches to ALL the participants.
After they are awarded, I would
> mention that some parents and boys left early,
and did not help clean up.
> (Being careful not to mention names) Then
state that in the future, it will
> be required that everyone stay and clean up.
>
> Do not make an example out them. If you
punnish this boy or his father, you
> will quite simply....lose a scout.
>
I would suggest that this be handled in a more
positive light. Instead of announcing that 'some
parents and boys left early', take a few moments
after you present the patches to say 'I would
really like to think all of the parents and cubs
who helped with packing up the gear in the rain.
Thanks for your help, you did a great job' I'm
sure you can come up with something a little
better.
By doing this, you don't punish or lose a scout
and parent, but at the same time, the message is
still given. Be positive, not negative!!!
Hope this helps!
--------------------------------------------
--
Joe Macone
Scoutmaster, Troop 302
Arlington, Massachusetts
Boston Minuteman Council - Patriot District
http://members.xoom.com/Troop302
--------------------------------------------
--
______________________________________________________
Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com
Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting
cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:38:12 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Caron <robert.caron@UMB.EDU>
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From: Robert Caron <robert.caron@UMB.EDU>
Organization: University of Massachusetts Boston
Subject: Operation Polar Bear - New England
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Next Wednesday, October 20 at 7:30pm, the Knox Trail Council Western District
Boy Scout Roundtable will feature Operation Polar Bear. A member of the OPB
organizing committee will be making a presentation on OPB2K to be held in
January. Information about the program and registration for it will be available.
For those of you completely unfamiliar with this event, it is a weekend
campout with a winter camping theme for both Boy and Girl Scouts. It is
privately sponsored by a committee of Scout leaders in New England. It is
usually very well attended (in the hundreds) and has been held most often at
the former Fort Devens in Ayer, Massachusetts (this year's location has not
been officially announced yet).
One and all are welcome to attend.
The location of the Roundtable is St. Anne's Church on route 30 in
Southborough, Massachusetts. The church is about one half mile east of the
center of town (the intersection of routes 85 and 30). Route 85 leading to
the center of Southborough is about two miles east of the intersection of
route I-495 and route 9 (which is in the town of Westborough).
--
Robert Caron
Troop Committee Secretary, Northborough Troop 101
Brotherhood, Chippanyonk Lodge #59, OA
Knox Trail Council #244, BSA
Eagle, NE-I-193
Massachusetts
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:41:12 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
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From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: Boy Scouts and cooking
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I've been reading all these thoughts on scouts and cooking and thought I'd
add my own thoughts. Lot's of experienced scouters have told what they do but
I figure there may be some new leaders on this list looking for ideas for
their troops. Yes, there is a lot to be said for patrol method cooking and
individual cooking, high impact and low impact.
In my troop we have found in the last 75 years that we reach a balance when
feeding scouts. We camp every month and a week in the summer. At summer
camp or Philmont, etc. dinner is taken care of by the camp we are attending.
We divide up the rest of the years outings into 3 methods of cooking.
We attend a Camporee and in the spring and have a father/son campout in the
fall. At both of these we do Troop cooking. Our SPL assigns a team to do
preperation, cooking and cleaning etc. The SM and the SA's usually procure
the items needed. We drag out some old BBQ grills and dutch ovens, etc.,
it's a group effort.
We divide up the other campouts between individual cooking (sharing stoves,
dutch ovens or fire space) and patrol method cooking. We have a mix of boys,
some from big families and some with 1 parent or living with a gaurdian. We
figure they can use the experience in cooking for the group and for
themselves as this reflects real life for them. Many kids go off to college
and eat on a meal plan at the dorm, but sooner or later they are somewhere on
their own and hoefully will dine on something other than Dominos pizza for
the remainder of their single years.
Just some thoughts
Your Owl Friend
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:15:54 -0600
Reply-To: Jim Peterson <kupete@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU>
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From: Jim Peterson <kupete@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: Klondike Derbies
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Hi all,
I'm looking for program ideas for our Klondike Derby event that will be
held in February. Our troop is hosting the event. It will be held at one
of our council's camps, the Naish Scout Reservation in Bonner Springs, KS.
In the past, we've done a fairly traditional derby.....patrols build sleds,
etc. But we almost never have snow. We've done the add-on wheels thing
but mostly, we just have mud.......it's not been"a-great-time had-by-all"
kind of event pulling the sleds around in the mud and all......
So I'm looking for a different kind of theme/event for this year's Klondike
that will not involve sleds. If any of you have Klondike events that have
worked well, please email me privately. I'd sure appreciate your
suggestions!
BLUE SKIES!, Any day above ground is a good day!
Jim Peterson
BS RT Comm, Pelathe Dist
Heart of America Council Eagle Class of 1963
ASM, T-55, Lawrence, Kansas Brotherhood, Tamegonit Lodge
email: kupete@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Mic-O-Say: HW "Shieldmaker"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:08:03 -0400
Reply-To: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
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From: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Boy Scouts and cooking
X-To: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <0.42f5dea2.2535f408@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Chris Summers wrote:
> themselves as this reflects real life for them. Many kids go off to college
> and eat on a meal plan at the dorm, but sooner or later they are somewhere on
> their own and hoefully will dine on something other than Dominos pizza for
> the remainder of their single years.
Our son learned cookie-making in nursery school. (g) Then the
elementary-school had some cooking activities; he CHOSE Home-Ec in Jr Hi
and Hi as an elective and took some ribbing for it. He got the Cooking MB.
And when he got to college, he could cook. So, since he ended up in an
"apartment" style dorm, he did. Chili, spaghetti, keema, beef curry, red
beans'n'rice (both Cajun and Indian style), jambalaya once. Met a lot of
interesting people who followed their noses, and one quarter 6 guys were
PAYING to eat whenever he fixed curry. He'll never make a living that
way, but he didn't eat PapaJohn's every weekend either. (And btw, if you
omit the Cajun spices and the meat in Red beans'n'rice, you can throw in
a T of curry powder and it's authentic. Also has the mild advantage of
being recognizable to most kids so they'll try it.)
There is something to be said for knowing HOW even if you never DO.
Cheryl
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:22:45 EDT
Reply-To: MVAEMT@AOL.COM
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From: Kenneth Spiegel <MVAEMT@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dad broke the rule -
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In a message dated 10/13/1999 9:45:49 AM EST, troop302@XOOMMAIL.COM writes:
<<
> Do not make an example out them. If you
punnish this boy or his father, you
> will quite simply....lose a scout.
>
I would suggest that this be handled in a more
positive light. Instead of announcing that 'some
parents and boys left early', take a few moments
after you present the patches to say 'I would
really like to think all of the parents and cubs
who helped with packing up the gear in the rain.
Thanks for your help, you did a great job' I'm
sure you can come up with something a little
better.
By doing this, you don't punish or lose a scout
and parent, but at the same time, the message is
still given. Be positive, not negative!!!
Hope this helps! >>
Suggest that you give a special colored bead to those boys who stayed to the
very end. A glow in the dark bead works wonders on a string or safety pin.
Ken Spiegel
Assistant Scoutmaster Troop 80, Farmingville, NY (Long Island)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:46:19 -0700
Reply-To: anitah@SLIP.NET
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: anitah@SLIP.NET
Subject: Re: Roundtable Magic
X-To: Terry Slade <tmslade@ACTX.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I grant you these won't come up often, but...
1) Other Countries: Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic
2) Other Animals: Emu (actually, when this trick was tried on me the first time, an emu IS what I thought of - I'd seen something about ostriches and their kin earlier the same day...), Eagle, Earthworm, Echidna, Egret, Elk
and of course the animals will be totally different if you chose any of the other countries! Yes I know, *pick pick pick*!
Anita H. <anitah@slip.net>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:45:30 -0500
Reply-To: trinoaks@FLASH.NET
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sarah Nunez <trinoaks@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Request for information
I forgot who posted the original question, but I passed it along to my
sister, who was stationed at Ft. Rucker not long ago. Here is her
reply:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following message is forwarded to you by trinoaks@flash.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Hi all:
>> I've been authorized by our BSA Council to look into improving our
>>Camp's Challenge Course (COPE). I was told that there might be a
>>"Construction Battalion" at Fort Rucker that has experience in
>>constructing elements of a challenge course. If anyone on the list can
>>provide me with a POC or phone number I would appreciate it. Also, if
>>you know of a better option to finding a low cost way of getting
>>material and labor for such a project...speak up.
>I can't specifically provide a contact, but I can tell you that Army
>Corps of Engineers is usually responsible for building our obstacle
>courses and frequently contribute assistance to worthy causes on the
>civilian side. Sorry I can't be of greater help.
-----------------------------------------------------
-- End of forwarded message
-----------------------------------------------------
Sarah Nunez
trinoaks@flash.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:02:58 -0600
Reply-To: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
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From: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
Subject: Crowd Control Methods Needed
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>Does anyone else out there ever yell and since when is it against the law? How
can this be handle >without further complicating the matter?
Scouting is one of the few programs in this county that submerges boys in an
environment that forces them to make judgments that tell them if they are right
or wrong. Their judgments will either give annoyance to failure or satisfaction
to success. If the Scouts can't control themselves with adults around, how will
they do it when adults are not around? The adults in our Troop have been asked
to leave the room if they feel the need to yell at the Scouts. There are the
rare occasion to yell but even after that, I find myself apologizing. If this is
to be a boy run Troop, then by golly, they better learn how to lead it.
Let the Scouts talk and have fun, let them ignore the sign, then let them suffer
the consequences of not getting anything done or going home late. If the Scouts
didn't really care that they missed their program, then it probably isn't a fun
enough program in the first place. You want the PLC coming up and complaining
about the talking and control. You want them frustrated (annoyance by failure)
so that they are motivated to solve the problem (satisfaction by success). But
if you, the adult, start yelling to gain control, then the Scouts learn two
things. First they learn that you, the mighty adult, will take control when YOU
don't like the way things are going. Second, they learn the un-skill of yelling
to gain control. Nothing like a Troop of boys yelling at each other to gain
control. As long as the adults maintain control in the boy run Troop, the Scouts
will never gain respect for your boy leadership or learn those skills
themselves. They will always see you, the adult, as a controller that demands
order. This is not what Scouting or Boy Run is all about.
Teach the Scouts how to gain order. Of course the Scout sign the first
responsibility. But you have to teach the respect of the sign as a tool, not as
a object of punishment or forcing respect. Since the beginning of Scouting,
leadership has been taught as a method of leading small groups of leaders who
lead their own small groups. In other words, SPLs should be working with his
small group of Patrol Leaders to gain control of their Patrols, not the whole
Troop. The SPL should hold the Patrol Leader responsible for the actions of his
Patrol. If they can't then that it is a sign that the Leader needs training.
But that is why he is a leader in the first place, to learn. Our Scouts found
that different ways of lining up the Troop makes it easier for all the Scouts to
see the SPL with the sign up. Our PLC has been in the habit of dividing the
Troop up into three small groups during the programs because they are easier to
control. I learned a long time ago that many times the Troops get loud when the
programs are boring. If you consistently see this, advice your PLC on changing
the boring part of the program. I heard a SM the other day explain how he tells
his Scouts to just sit down and shut up during the boring program so that they
can have fun during the game. I try to remind our guys that the whole program
from beginning to end has to be fun. If at any time the boys are talking because
it's boring, it's time for a change.
In a boy run Troop, the adults job is to give the Scout the tools to lead a boy
run Troop. If you see chaos and rowdiness, think of it as a positive
opportunity for you to work with your Scouts to improve their leadership and
character. Think of it as a need for your experience as an adult who has live
the tough life. But don't look at it as an opportunity to stand up and be the
controller. Scouts need to be motivated to do something, either by annoyance or
success. Use those tools to your advantage and find ways to help your PLC
maintain control. When you know that the Scouts are running their program
without adults in the room, your rewords are great. It takes time and, not for
just the Scouts, but also for the adults to get out of the habit of taking
control. But it's worth it.
Have a wonderful week. We just came back from a great rappelling campout. I love
this Scouting Stuff.
Barry Runnels
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:50:02 -0700
Reply-To: 6 Pak Pepsi <wchapel@INNW.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: 6 Pak Pepsi <wchapel@INNW.NET>
Subject: Re: Patrol Box Plans
X-To: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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What type of "tough plastic totes" or you talking? Like Rubbermaid Action
Packers?
Just wondering as the current SPL, ex- PL's mom
Sharon Brooks
PS - I did buy him the 24 qt Action Packer, and we really love it. - But -
they haven't really done alot with it since we put it together 1 year ago in a
couple of weeks. It has only been used 4 or 5 times.
Norman Turrill wrote:
> patrol box problem, was to buy each patrol a
> light weight aluminum camp table and one or two tough plastic stackable
> storage boxes.
>
> YiS,
> Norman Turrill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:23:29 -0400
Reply-To: Donald R Izard <dizard@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Donald R Izard <dizard@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Patrol Box Plans
X-To: 6 Pak Pepsi <wchapel@INNW.NET>
In-Reply-To: <3804C64A.3782842B@innw.net>
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beaver tree makes a nice plastic kitchen box . . .
http://www.beavertree.com
Scouter Don
I used to be an Owl - don't have NOTING to do with beaver or their trees
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, 6 Pak Pepsi wrote:
> What type of "tough plastic totes" or you talking? Like Rubbermaid Action
> Packers?
> Just wondering as the current SPL, ex- PL's mom
>
> Sharon Brooks
> PS - I did buy him the 24 qt Action Packer, and we really love it. - But -
> they haven't really done alot with it since we put it together 1 year ago in a
> couple of weeks. It has only been used 4 or 5 times.
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:16:26 -0700
Reply-To: The Hendra Family <hendra@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: The Hendra Family <hendra@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Subject: **HELP**
X-cc: Gary Hendra <hendra.gary@ssd.loral.com>,
marcia.morrow@pbdir.com, DOLORES_BERGEN@udlp.com
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*Somebody* (no, not ME ... not this time <giggle>) agreed that we
would put together the PowWow book for Santa Clara County Council.
PowWow will be in JANUARY ... which means the book should be mostly
DONE by now ... of course it isn't.
We need ideas!! HELP!!!
In the past, the book has been organized by month (Monthly Themes)
with items in the following sub-divisions:
- theme related
- pre-opening
- ceremonies
- audience participation
- skits
- games
- songs
- crafts
- cubs in the kitchen (not ALL edible)
followed by
Tiger Cubs
Webelos Scouts
Field Trips
Miscellaneous
The Themes we need input for are:
Turn Back the Clock
Cub Grub
Bugs and Things
See the Forest for the Trees
Space: The New Frontier (Space derby)
From Sea to Shining Sea
Toughen Up
Pockets
Our Gifts and Talents
Turn on the Power
What Do You Do at Holiday Time?
and whatever January 2001's theme is <sigh>
Thanks!!
(any submissions will be gratefully acknowledged in the book, of course!)
Kyna
--============_-1272280226==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
*Somebody* (no, not ME ... not this time <<giggle>) agreed that we
would put together the PowWow book for Santa Clara County Council.
PowWow will be in JANUARY ... which means the book should be mostly
DONE by now ... of course it isn't.
We need ideas!! HELP!!!
In the past, the book has been organized by month (Monthly Themes) with
items in the following sub-divisions:
- theme related
- pre-opening
- ceremonies
- audience participation
- skits
- games
- songs
- crafts
- cubs in the kitchen (not ALL edible)
followed by
Tiger Cubs
Webelos Scouts
Field Trips
Miscellaneous
The Themes we need input for are:
<fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param><smaller>Turn Back the Clock
Cub Grub
Bugs and Things
See the Forest for the Trees
<smaller>Space: The New Frontier (Space derby)
</smaller>From Sea to Shining Sea
Toughen Up
Pockets
Our Gifts and Talents
Turn on the Power
What Do You Do at Holiday Time?
</smaller></fontfamily>and whatever January 2001's theme is <<sigh>
Thanks!!
(any submissions will be gratefully acknowledged in the book, of
course!)
Kyna
--============_-1272280226==_ma============--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:52:44 -0500
Reply-To: Ed Henderson <biged@SCOUTER.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Ed Henderson <biged@SCOUTER.COM>
Subject: Re: Scout Campground Master List
X-cc: JoelMarc@AOL.COM, Maryann@scouter.com, Terry@scouter.com
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On October 5th Joel Korczynski asked if there were any good lists for Scout
Camps around the United States.
SCOUTER Magazine's SCOUTER.com web site has by far the largest collection
of B.S.A. Camps from around the country. Broken down by state, the SCOUTER
on-line database has over 400 listing of camps with web pages, each with a
description and the operating council. Currently SCOUTER is building a
database of ALL scout camps, even those without a web presence of their
own. To visit the complete database of every on-line BSA camp in America
(and Scout camps in other nations) go to:
http://compass.scouter.com/Camping_and_the_Outdoors/Where_To_Go/Camping/
(Make sure you copy the entire URL above into your web browser, sometimes
they wrap onto a second line).
Once at this page you will see a list of sub-categories:
@Leave No Trace
@Where To Go
BSA Camps
Girl Scout Camps
International Scout Camps
Other Youth Camps
Outdoor Clubs
Private Camps
State & Federal
The state by state listing for all BSA camps is at:
http://compass.scouter.com/Camping_and_the_Outdoors/Where_To_Go/Camping/BSA_
Camps/
Several of the states even have original editorial content about the camps
of that particular state. Visit Georgia, Virginia & Missouri for an
example of what I am referring to.
I hope everyone finds this to be a great resource!
YIS,
ED HENDERSON
Associate Editor, SCOUTER Magazine
Director of the 1-800-SCOUTER Catalog
BigEd@scouter.com
SCOUTER Magazine
P.O. Box 5840, Kansas City, MO 64171
4144 Pennsylvania Avenue, Kansas City, MO 64111
Tel: 1-800-SCOUTER (1-800-726-8837)
Fax: 1-816-931-4113
http://www.scouter.com/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:10:09 -0400
Reply-To: Steve Schmid <sfschmid@JUNO.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Steve Schmid <sfschmid@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Seabase Advanced Scuba
My son attended the Seabase this year with another troop an earned the
Scuba certification. He had a GREAT time. Of course now he is "Hooked"
and want to go back and attend the Scuba adventure program for advanced
stuff. He is also the only certified Scout in his troop. Does anyone
know of a troop in the NY area going to the Seabase next summer for the
Scuba adventure. He would like to contact them and see if they have a
slot avalable for 1 more Scout. You can e-mail me privatly to avoid
waiting list space. Thanks Susan Schmid
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:17:58 EDT
Reply-To: Laura Lyster <fox704@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Laura Lyster <fox704@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: possible leaders minute
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Thought this would make a good Leaders minute. Came from rkidsreverything
list.
YIS
Laura
bufflo@juno.com fox704@hotmail.com
PUTTING IT TOGETHER
In nineteen ninety three I had the opportunity to travel to Egypt on a
tour. It was a great trip, as you can imagine. One of the highlights was
seeing the great pyramids and the great sphinx. It may surprise you to know
that the sphinx is not as large as many people think. Many pictures show an
intentional combination of the sphinx and one of the pyramids,which leads
you to think that the sphinx is on the same scale as the pyramids. In fact,
the sphinx is probably twenty five or thirty feet high. About the height of
a modest home.
I suppose that just a glimpse of a sphinx is enough for most folks to
recognize that it is a combination of a man and a lion. The idea is to
combine the wisdom of men or women, with the strength of lions. Taking what
the ancient Egyptian’s thought of as the best qualities of the two species.
What would you think about choosing the best parts of other species,or
even of other human beings, and putting together the perfect man or the
perfect woman? Can you imagine being involved in a search for the perfect
eyes, the perfect shoulders, the perfect body, and so forth? More important,
what about the perfect brain, the perfect attitude, the perfect sense of
humor, perfect sensitivity, insight, perseverance, and so forth?
On the other hand, I’m not sure I could design a person anywhere
near as well as God can. There may be great wisdom in giving each person a
combination of strengths and weaknesses. What would it be like to have to
deal with perfection at every point as you go through life. There is a sense
in which our imperfections give us permission to make mistakes. They also
give us places where we know that we can grow. They provide us with
challenges and opportunities as we pursue areas that are strange and even
uncomfortable for us.
It seems to me that it is often the surprises which make people most
interesting to us, and in turn, make us most interesting to others. The
unpredictable little things keep us on our toes. The unreasonable decisions,
the incomprehensible explanations, and the illogical conclusions make us
what we are; unique individuals with characteristics that are as
individualized as our fingerprints. Furthermore, I am convinced that my
areas of greatest triumph have been in connection with my greatest
weaknesses and needs. God has enabled me to have victories by forcing me to
deal with my perceived inadequacies.
I urge you to look at yourself with appreciation, as you consider the
complexities of your body, mind, and spirit. You are a unique child of God
with special talents and gifts to share with the rest of us.
David L. Glusker
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:19:36 EDT
Reply-To: HOROWITZE1@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: HOROWITZE1@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: SCOUTS-L Digest - 11 Oct 1999 to 12 Oct 1999 (#1999-
MIME-Version: 1.0
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How do I open this?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:28:40 -0500
Reply-To: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
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From: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
Subject: Re: too much stuff?
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Bob and Rusty Taylor wrote:
>
> basic training; what sort of resources/literature/etc. do you put out for
> attendees at basic training? is there some sort of suggested list of
> materials?
>
As a matter of fact, there is. Its in the front of the Training Guide.
I would certainly have "available" as much of the information as
possible, if for no other reason than show and tell. There are
references to the resources included in all of the training
presentations, and having the resources there, helps to emphasize the
point.
At a minimum, I would have the Leader Handbook for the training being
conducted, The Guide to Safe Scouting, and the Program Helps and the
youth handbook(s) for the level of training being conducted.
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
YiS
Roy Fisher
District Commissioner - Sioux District
Alamo Area Council
Used to be an Owl }8> . . . Always an Eagle!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:43:44 -0400
Reply-To: Sqrnot@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sandy Lenichek <Sqrnot@AOL.COM>
Subject: Thanksgiving Feast at Camp
X-To: SCOUTS-L@TCU.EDU
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Hi I'm Sandy Lenichek, a Troop CC and Weebelos Leader from North Texas.
The scouts in my troop want to have a Thanksgiving Feast when we go camping
next month. Any Ideas?
YIS
Sandy 8-) (Sqrnot)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:43:59 -0500
Reply-To: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
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From: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
Subject: Re: Inventions Cub Day Camp
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How about something like an "Inventer's Kit"? Give each participant/den
whatever a kit (box or bag) containing a whole bunch of stuff: bits of
wood, string, spools, pipe cleaners, felt, rubber bands, tape,
watercolors etc. etc. Each day the group works on their "Invention" and
at the end of camp everyone shows off what they have done.
FWIW
Good luck,
YiS
Roy Fisher
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:47:59 -0400
Reply-To: eddunn <eddunn@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: eddunn <eddunn@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: More on teenagers and uniforms
X-To: CHUCK BRAMLET <chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
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Good point Chuck! Most of the people here don't think there is a
problem, they are that closed minded. PR is the biggest problem facing
Scouting today, as a DE I used to do alot of it and the attitude was
better-but still not good. The problem comes from a National Staff that
believes PR is a waste and does not expect any from Councils-as if the
problem will just magically disappear. As if PR is something that
Scouting is somehow immune to. I believe that as an organization, we
are led by such a conservative group that they can't stand to give any
money to the liberal advertising business. I was very successful, but
in thanks you have seen the thanks I recieved-none. Growth didn't
matter either!
Scouting is down-way down. But as long as our eyes have blinders self
imposed, there is no insentive to change or grow. When it is thought
thru, the entire subject of Scouting is a waste-because we lack the
courage to admit that our own leadership is lying. All I hear is "it's
fine wear I am", just like people say about their politician, ours is
fine, but everybody elses is screwed up. You would think they would get
a patch or something! Like it's worth it! As a result we are all
guilty of the same thing we claim to be better than, hypocracy at its
worst. We can't expect any better from the kids than we can do
ourselves?
History will not be kind to us, we were given a way to make our kids
better-but closed our eyes to reality and let it slip away, for
money...of course.
Oh, and don't worry, it was only some peoples life...no big deal!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:21:53 -0500
Reply-To: larry fenter <fenter@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: larry fenter <fenter@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Dad broke the rule - Should Cub-E-Los patch be awarded?
X-To: DryerMS@CLF.NAVY.MIL
Hello folks,
I don't know about your districts and councils, but here in mine we
charge participants for the patch. The charge is added into the registration
fee. If this is the case, I would strongly suggest giving the
_family_ what they paid for.
Larry Fenter
Cubmaster Pack 38
Nashville, TN
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:40:03 -0500
Reply-To: jhs8@OKSTATE.EDU
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From: jhs8@OKSTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Dad broke the rule - Should Cub-E-Los patch be awarded?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In this discussion, I am having difficulty understanding that the rules
were broken. There was a CAMP rule that the pack had to check out of the
site but, if I remember the original post correctly, there was no mention
of a pack rule that would affect who got the patch (only an "understanding"
of the procedures"). IF the pack had such a rule, it should be observed
but if it was only a rule of the camp that patches were awarded after the
pack checked out, it seems to me that this occured. Departing as a unit
doesn't seem to be a requirement of "checkout."
Certainly, I would discuss the issue with the Dad who left without
completing the PACK's checkout process--but for which I didn't see any
penalty listed--but I wouldn't withhold a patch!
jim sleezer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:46:10 -0400
Reply-To: "Laurie K. Burnaby" <lkburnaby@MEDIAONE.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Laurie K. Burnaby" <lkburnaby@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Using BSA Resources - Was Re: Den Chiefs From: Ted Aamland
X-To: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
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I thank Roy for his careful addition to my original message. Roy is right.
Start with the BSA for rules and regs and then ask experienced local
scouters for the good stuff that the BSA cannot put in. This case was one
where Ted needed definitions. BSA is best place to start then Scout-L for
how it really works.
Roy, thank you for expanding on my thoughts. This is what is great about the
list. Many heads etc.
Yours in Scouting
(MR) Laurie K. Burnaby Unit Commissioner
Great Ponds District Old Colony Council - Canton, MA
I used to be an Eagle
lkburnaby@mediaone.net
From: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
wrote
> With all due respect to Laurie, and I don't disagree with what was said.
> The Scouting literature certainly should be one of the first resources
> considered, if the person asking the question has a copy or it is
> otherwise available. And its the ONLY sure place to get the positively
> "official" answer to any question posed to the list. But ...
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:58:27 EDT
Reply-To: Omykidsmom@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Omykidsmom@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp
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In a message dated 10/13/99 9:11:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< irst of all, it is a patch! A peice of cloth with some embrodiery.
We aren't even talking about a rank patch, it's a camporee patch.
If your council/district is like most it will be available for
purchase next year at the trading post for a dollar or less.
Second, why do we all seem to get so hung up on "THE RULES". Have
so many of us forgotten why we are here? Are we here to _punish_
the sins (!?!?) of fathers and sons? Or are we hare to promote our
ideals? Are we here for character development and FUN for the boys. >>
To me, the last line quoted says it all as to why we withhold the patch.
What kind of character development is there when the person who shirked his
responsibilities gets the same rewards as the person who acted
responsibility? Our society is filling up more and more with people who
think the rules don't apply to them. I work in the school system, and way too
many kids (high schoolers) blame teachers/administrators when they screw up.
Nobody wants to be accountable anymore.
I think withholding the patch stresses responsiblility/ group effort / and
consequences. Three things that we don't see too much anymore.
Susan O'Connell
Baltimore
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:56:01 EDT
Reply-To: Fatclell@AOL.COM
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From: Kevin McClelland <Fatclell@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
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From: Fatclell@aol.com
Full-name: Fatclell
Message-ID: <0.20502638.25369906@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:25:10 EDT
Subject: Teenagers and Uniforms
To: listserv@tcubvm.is.tcu.edu
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X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26
You know, we can sit and complain about national not doing good PR work, but
that's not constructive. The fact of the matter is, it took me many years
before I'd wear my uniform in public. I'm 18 now, and it wasn't until about
two years ago that I'd actually wear my uniform in public. I only recently
began wearing the full field uniforms to our meetings (sorry Hank). I'm not
quite sure why I started wearing the uniform, but it probably had something
to do with working on camp staff at Broad Creek Scout Camp. It was at that
point that I realized, there are a lot of "cool" people in scouting. I met
more interesting people in that first summer than I had in my entire life.
Anyhow, once I realized that scouting wasn't for "losers" I no longer felt
bad about wearing the uniform in public. Just last month I was coming home
from an eagle ceremony for one of my friends. I stopped to get gas and I was
still in full uniform. I walked into the station to purchase a soda, and the
attendant was a high school dropout I knew. He giggled when he saw me, but
that just made me laugh. I was a boy scout and am in college, and he was one
of those kids that beat up boy scouts, and he's working at a gas station.
What I'm trying to say is, make the boys in your troop realize that there are
"cool" people in scouting. Maybe that will work for them, as it did for me.
YIS,
Kevin McClelland
fatclell@aol.com
Troop 615 Committee Member
Nentico Lodge 12 Service Chairman
Camp Spencer Staff, BCMSR
National Pike District, Baltimore Area Council
--part1_0.6adcad7c.2536a041_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 03:00:02 -0500
Reply-To: trinoaks@FLASH.NET
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sarah Nunez <trinoaks@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
In-Reply-To: <0.6adcad7c.2536a041@aol.com>
In <0.6adcad7c.2536a041@aol.com>, on 10/13/99
at 10:56 PM, Kevin McClelland <Fatclell@AOL.COM> said:
>You know, we can sit and complain about national not doing good PR
>work, but that's not constructive. The fact of the matter is, it took
>me many years before I'd wear my uniform in public. I'm 18 now, and it
>wasn't until about two years ago that I'd actually wear my uniform in
>public. I only recently began wearing the full field uniforms to our
>meetings (sorry Hank). I'm not quite sure why I started wearing the
>uniform, but it probably had something to do with working on camp staff
>at Broad Creek Scout Camp. It was at that point that I realized, there
>are a lot of "cool" people in scouting.
I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that you finally got to the
point where you were secure enough in yourself and your choice of
Scouting that the ridicule from non-Scouts was meaningless to you.
Perhaps it all gets back to the character development thing. Part of
that character development involves developing enough self-esteem in the
Scouts that they are able to withstand ridicule and criticism for doing
what's right.
Sarah Nunez
trinoaks@flash.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:52:00 -0700
Reply-To: DAVID P SMITH <smithd7@SONGS.SCE.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: DAVID P SMITH <smithd7@SONGS.SCE.COM>
Subject: New Sports and Academic Requirements
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Fellow scouters,
I have a couple of observations to offer about the changes to the
sports and academics program. It obviously did take a lot of work,
and has simplified things a great deal. Swapping books with other
leaders can be time-consuming (Especially if you are a science and
geek looking for academic booklets). As with anything, some of the
changes I like, others I am not so fond of yet.
I have seen some comments indicating that the requirements in the
new guide book have gotten easier to complete, along with being
presented in a simpler format. I don't know that I agree with this.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the more effort required to earn
something, the more value the boy will attach to it.
The sports pins now have a number of specific skills listed and to
eran the pin a boy needs to complete a minimum number. This is a
significant change from the current 30/60/90 formula that is based
on time spent playing and practicing. With the new program, you
have to ensure specific skills are practiced--many of which probably
will not show up in the younger groups, say T-Ball or "herd-ball"
soccer played by Tigers and Wolves. The sports belt loops haven't
effectively changed much, but the pins seem a bit harder to earn,
especially for a Tiger or Wolf. Until now, if you played and
practiced on a sports team, you were basically assured of getting a
pin at the end of the season if you kept track of your time.
Several of the academic subjects seem to have fairly stringent
requirements for the belt loop, but easier requirements for the pin
than before. Others academics have fairly easy requires for both
the loop and pin. Chess and Computers belt loops and pins seem
pretty easy (maybe because I am such a computer geek), but the Art,
Music, and Science seem more difficult. Am I correct in reading
that you need to "demonstrate six design elements" as one of three
requirements to earn a belt loop? I didn't know about some of those
design elements until I was studying photography in college; they
seem out of place in a program recently opened to Tiger Cubs, in my
(rarely-humble) opinion. Maybe I'm just not an artist....
It seems that in practice, there will be some belt loops that tigers
and wolves can earn, but the pins and some other belt loops will be
more practically attainable for WEBELOS.
Has anyone out there discussed how to handle the new letter
situation? Under the current program, a scout earned a letter if he
and an adult earned pins. In the new program, adults no longer earn
loops or pins. Do you simply give the boy the "C" letter with his
first pin? I would appreciate comments on this, since the new guide
doesn't clearly address it.
Again, I want to make it clear that I am not trying to be negative
about the changes. I believe that anything worth having is worth
earning. I still think that the boys in my den (currently Bears)
will be able to earn most of the belt loops in a single den
meeting--possibly two. We have been working on a belt loop each
month at a den meeting. I think it is positive for them to work
together to reach goals, and that each boy gets a bit of recognition
at each monthly pack meeting.
I think the changes in the sports and academic program will requrie
some adjustments by leaders in the field, but will continue to be a
great program for introducing the boys to new ideas and activities.
YIS,
David P Smith
Den 1 (Bear) Leader, Pack 99,
California Inland Empire Council,
Lake Elsinore, California
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:17:27 EDT
Reply-To: BMayhew65@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: BMayhew65@AOL.COM
Subject: Speaking of retrieving old records
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I have recently been informed that one of our adult Scouters was recommended,
and approved, for one of the Heroism Medals as a youth (approximately 20
years ago). He evidently was the first lifeguard on-scene to a young man
who--in the middle of doing a "jack knife" off of a high dive--ended up
hitting his head on the board and getting knocked out. This guy (as a youth)
saw the entire event from his lifeguard platform, and was in the water almost
as soon as the man hit the water. He went straight to the bottom of the
pool, safely brought the guy to the surface, and did CPR poolside until the
guy was breathing on his own. He oversaw the strapping down of this guy onto
a backboard, and rode to the hospital with him--wet trunks and all! :-) I
know the man survived, but have no idea the extent of his injuries.
He turned down the award, stating that he was doing a job that he was being
paid to do (as a lifeguard), and "should not have been submitted for such an
honor".
Who would we contact to see if there is any record of his award being
approved by National?
As always, your help is GREATLY appreciated!
Bob Mayhew, Jr.
District Commissioner
Catalina Council / Papago Lodge #494
Tucson, AZ
Eagle--Owl--Vigil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:41:56 -0400
Reply-To: "Kelley, Mike" <MKelley@MICROS.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Kelley, Mike" <MKelley@MICROS.COM>
Subject: Re: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp
MIME-Version: 1.0
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May I play devil's advocate here for a minute before you "correct" this
father or his son?
Why did he leave early? We've all seen those parents and sons that just
can't pack up and leave early enough on Sunday morning or those that leave
summer camp after the closing campfire and don't even wait until the last
day. Why are they so eager to leave? Did he have a good reason to leave
early or did he just not feel like he was fitting in and is truly welcome or
is he uncomfortable in Scouting surroundings? On campouts, the camp ranger
almost has to drag me out Sunday afternoons. My son and I have no problem
hanging around late after camp has been broken and everyone's been
dismissed. We do a little more hiking or just talk and play with other
lagging adults and sons who, like us, really don't want to admit that the
weekend activity is over.
Rewarding the boys that did stay until the end is really just another way of
singling out the boy that left early. I wouldn't do it. Take the high road
and speak to the father calmly in private.
Regards,
Mike Kelley
CM Pack 202, MC Troop 746, Greenbelt, Maryland
Patuxent District, National Capital Area Council
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:41:47 -0400
Reply-To: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
Subject: Re: Patrol Box Plans
Mime-version: 1.0
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Yes, Rubbermaid is one kind. Also you might find a large footlocker or
toolbox made of tough plastic. The plastic is important to keep out the
rain when they forget to bring it under cover.
YiS,
Norman Turrill
ASM and Advancement Chair, Troop 203, Keystone Area Council
Hyas Skaha (The Raven)
--------------
Norman Turrill email: nturrill@netrax.net
voicemail: 717-531-4435 (office) or 717-534-2709 (home)
snailmail: 30 Hill Manor Drive, Hershey PA 17033
----------
>From: 6 Pak Pepsi <wchapel@innw.net>
>To: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
>Subject: Re: Patrol Box Plans
>Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999, 1:50 PM
>
> What type of "tough plastic totes" or you talking? Like Rubbermaid Action
> Packers?
> Just wondering as the current SPL, ex- PL's mom
>
> Sharon Brooks
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:42:19 -0700
Reply-To: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Subject: Coast Guard Academy
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Cliff Golden was giving suggestions for places to visit near Mystic CT.
He suggested the US Coast Guard Academy. He wrote:
>U.S. Coast Guard Academy
>New London, Connecticut
>Public Affairs Office -- 860/444-8270
>Across the river from the New London Naval Submarine Base. They have a
>tall masted ship (the U.S.S. Beagle I think) which Scouts can tour if it
>is not out at sea on a training mission. Tours of the campus. We've
>never stayed there, only day visit. I think they have a campsite or
>building available.
Cliff (and all others):
The Coast Guard's (America's) Tall Ship is the USCGC (US Coast Guard Cutter)
EAGLE. A name which they proudly share with us. When my son received his
Eagle award, the Admiral of the 13th Coast Guard District sent him a note
with a framed picture of the USCGC Eagle.
The Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard (The E-10, the #1 enlisted
person) is an Eagle Scout and he just got the Commandant of the Coast Guard
to change the rules and give Eagle Scouts the rank of E-3 (Seaman) walking
in the door to boot camp. Almost all boots are E-1, The other four
services (they are part of some other Department known as DOD, rhymes with
dud) give Eagle Scouts E-2. How much of a difference is that? As of
January 1, 2000 a new enlistee at E-1 will earn $930 a month and will
advance to E-2 ($1,127 a month) upon completion of Boot Camp. Advancement
to E-3 ($1172 a month) is a minimum of six months at E-2, and it usually
takes longer.
An Eagle Scout can easily make E-4 (Petty Officer Third Class) within his
first year.
Cliff, thanks for the opening- as you can see by signature block, I have
first hand information about America's oldest continuous serving military
force (and the world's seventh largest navy).
By the way, the Beagle was Charles Darwin's ship.
_____________
Thomas Heavey, Sr. ___ | |
heavey@nwrain.com \ \ / |
YN1-USCGR \ \/ * Tacoma, WA |
Scoutmaster Troop 299 \__ |
www.nwrain.net/~troop 299 |_______________|
WE-1-603-92 (I used to be an owl ...)
"Anyone can be great
because anyone can serve." --MLKjr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:51:46 -0700
Reply-To: Bill Cooper <wcoop237@PACBELL.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Bill Cooper <wcoop237@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Cook Kit Thread (again)
X-cc: Dave Starkweather <dstark@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
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Hey Scouters: If all this talk about what kind of cook kits to use, what
methods to use to cook the food has "wet" your appetite to get you to try to
improve your outdoor cooking skills for yourself or for the scouts in your
troop try
http://www.bsa-Troop237.org/ for some great dutch oven recipes.
Bill Cooper SM Troop 237
Orinda, CA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:11:02 EDT
Reply-To: Foxblue@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Foxblue@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Places to stay in or around Mystic, CT
X-To: c60clg1@corn.cso.niu.edu
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I must have missed the original posting of this request. Here is another
place not that far away. I don't know the time of year the original message
was.
You could stay at world famous Yawgoog Scout Reservation in Rockville, RI
(either exit 2 or 3 off of I-95 in Rhode Island (approx. less than 20 miles
from Mystic, CT)
If someone needs a contact let me know and I can steer you to council offices.
YIS,
John Blanchard SM Troop 35 Narragansett Council, BSA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:22:14 -0700
Reply-To: Kelly Parker <r13867@EMAIL.SPS.MOT.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Kelly Parker <r13867@EMAIL.SPS.MOT.COM>
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
Subject: Re: Value of Training
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One of the side-effects of attending training is the making of new
friends and the discovery of new resources. In addition to the value of
the information, which could be read, is the interaction of Scouters
providing experience and questions to add to the material. Above all, at
any gathering, we are reminded once again that there are a million other
men and women registered in Scouting, most of whom would be happy to
help us solve problems and share our experiences.
In my district, I often run across whole units that have withdrawn from
the community of Scouting. They attend little or no training, are never
at a camporee, go off to "do their own" summer camp EVERY year, and are
never seen. Some survive on the strength of their SMs, some simply die.
For every adult to attend every training may not be possible. Every
adult should attend some type of wider Scouting activity, however, in
order to build and reinforce the sense of belonging to something more
than just a weekly get-together for a bunch of kids.
--
YiS--
Kelly Parker
Firebird District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
SM,Troop 110 CM, Pack 43(retired)
Grand Canyon Council Wipala Wiki Lodge #432
Phoenix, AZ "and a good ol' Eagle, too..." W-CS-41
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:00:09 -0400
Reply-To: John Conley <iti@FRONTIERNET.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: John Conley <iti@FRONTIERNET.NET>
Organization: ITI
Subject: Re: Service to America Report form
X-To: "Colin Mc." <colinm@RUST.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Hey Fellow list members!
> >
> >Does any one know of a online source for the form used to report
> Service to
> >America hours to council?
> >I've made a quick look but have come up empty handed!
List,
Talk to your Local OA lodge about this one. It is their responsibility
to track and report service, and they have forms to do it.
YiS,
John Conley
Ganeodiyo Lodge Adviser
Finger Lakes Council (NY)
*Better to build boys than mend men*
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:12:32 -0500
Reply-To: Murphy Peter <MurphyP@TCE.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Murphy Peter <MurphyP@TCE.COM>
Subject: Re: Crowd Control Methods Needed
X-To: The Gillams <howlers@INTELIPORT.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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First, if the boys are complaining to their parents, there may be more
to the raised voice then yelling "sign's up". The boys feel uncomfortable
enough to bring it up to their parents so I'd monitor the situation closely
and see if the Scoutmaster's actions are entirely appropriate.
Second, like many of us, the Scoutmaster needs to learn to resist the
temptation to yell "sign's up". Let the meeting come to a halt and stand
there for as long as it takes. Let peer presure go to work. Let the
embarrassment
of being the last one to talk talking work for you. The current procedure
is training the Scouts to not to look for the sign but to wait for the loud
yell instead. I know i have not always resisted the temptation :-) But now
I try very hard and I'm working on training my ASM's to do the same.
Third, whether the Scoutmaster really did something wrong or not is
almost irrelevant. If the customers perceive a problem, then there is a
problem that must be addressed or it will impact attendance and
recruitment. The problem that needs addressing may be the Scoutmaster's
action, it may be the attitude of the boys and their parents, it may be
their expectations, or it may be a lack of communication and trust.
Whatever the real problem is, it will only get worse if it is ignored.
Peter Murphy
Scoutmaster, Troop 125
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:20:55 -0400
Reply-To: Darryl Hammill <darryl.hammill@NCMAIL.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Darryl Hammill <darryl.hammill@NCMAIL.NET>
Organization: N.C. Dept. of Health and Human Services
Subject: If I Were Not a Boy Scout?
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Your help and assistance is appreciated.
I have often been to camps or camporees where groups perform the
"If I Were Not a Boy Scout" song and performance. I have searched high
and low for a written copy of it. Can anyone help with this?
Thanks
D
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:44:32 -0500
Reply-To: whs <whs@IDCNET.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: whs <whs@IDCNET.COM>
Subject: Warrington Baden-Powell
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Now that Sea Scouts and Venturing are in the same division and since
Charles Holmes holds the dual roles of National Sea Scout Director
and National Director of Venturing, it is time to let the Venturing
folk know a bit more about Sea Scouting and the genesis of the BSA's
outdoor program!!! It also certainly won't hurt to let the folks in
the Boy Scout Division know something more about the genesis of the
Boy Scout movement.
{This is from the Sea Scout List.}
The subject of Warrington Baden-Powell has come up from time-to-time
over Seascout-Net, the international Sea Scouting discussion list.
The list's archives are found at
http://www.seascout.org/seascout-net/index.html
Warrington Baden Powell and his younger brother George, took their
baby brother Robert on many sailing expeditions in their home made
boats. They often camped ashore after travelling by boat. The Sea
Scouts of today still use the titles the Baden Powell boys gave to
each other, Skipper, Navigator and Cabin Boy.
Fairly little is written about Warrington Baden-Powell in the Sea
Scout literature, which is unfortunate since Warrington was very
involved in starting the Sea Scout movement in Britain.
Tony Ford, adds a bit to the Warington Baden Powell discussion.
He's a kayaker and canoeist and runs the Historical Canoe and
Kayak Association.
He has just been reading and writing about Warrington, the
designer of many canoes - in particular the Nautilus sailing
canoe, the Travelling canoe. Warington was instrumental in framing
the classification rules of the Royal Canoe Club - the world's
oldest canoe club. WBP wrote the canoeing chapter in many
editions of Dixon Kemp's Manual of Yacht and Boat Sailing and
Architecture. There were 11 editions.
Dixon Kemp's works contain Warrington B-P's pieces on canoeing.
There are drawings of his canoe designs and a reefing gear for
small area sails which he was involved in developing.
There's also an item on Warrington BP at
http:/www.paddlin.com.fivelakes/canoe_yawl.html.
There is a piece on WBP in the sailing chapter of "A Short
History of Canoeing in Britain" Further there's a German
canoeing book with a photograph of WBP sailing.
Canoeing is certainly an activity that both Sea Scouts and
Venturing have in common. Since we do have so many, many
differences, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to know that we
have much more in common! :-)
Yours In Sea Scouts;
Bill Sills
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:31:09 -0400
Reply-To: The Bests <bestbunch@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: The Bests <bestbunch@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: too much stuff?
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We just had our BLT/PowWow this past Saturday. I was there to help with
registration, keep snack table supplied, participate in skits, and as a
glorified gofer :).
The only thing that we required them to receive was a bag of songs, skits,
cheers, (anybody know the "Round of Applause"? The "Seal of Approval"? The
"Watermelon Cheer-Southern Style"? ) and about 3 pages on "Your First
Meeting" (of course, everybody brought their Basic Leader Book). We had a
table loaded up with a few Baloo's Bugles, more skits and songs, more
administrative helps, a few other things.
As a former first timer, I will admit that it is a lot to absorb in one day.
There has been talk of making BLT last all day, but then people would
complain about that!!! (Most didn't hang around for PowWow, which is the
best part of the whole day)
C Best
Tiger Den Coach (formerly WDL and BDL, soon to be Committee Chair)
Pack 34
Torhunta District
Tuscarora Council
North Carolina
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:29:26 EDT
Reply-To: ALScouter@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: ALScouter@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NEW Academics and Sports Requirements!
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Could someone please post the BSA Item # for this new booklet? Our Scout
Shop does not have it yet, but could get it sooner if I know what to ask them
to order.
YIS,
Len Motz
District Commissioner, Choccolocco District
ESA, Greater Alabama Council #1
Anniston, Alabama
"I used to be an Eagle" SR-192
Life Member, NAUMS
Webmaster, ESA,GAC1
http://members.xoom.com/gac_esa/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:30:29 -0700
Reply-To: "Daniel D. Hammond, Sr" <hammonddL@USWEST.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Daniel D. Hammond, Sr" <hammonddL@USWEST.NET>
Subject: Animal Beginning with "U"
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Cheryl asked if any of us could name an animal for which the
ENGLISH name begins with a "U."
One of my favorite animals begins with "U," it's the
unicorn!
Yours in ScOUTing,
Daniel D. Hammond, Sr.
CM Pack 225 and Black Hills District Committee
Olympia, WA
I used to be an Owl (W-CS-44) Working my Ticket
||<--W-W-W--<<<||
"A fisherman does not bait his hook with food he likes.
He uses food the fish likes. So with boys." --Lord Robert
Baden-Powell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:55:58 -0600
Reply-To: Dirty Larry <dirtyl@RMI.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Dirty Larry <dirtyl@RMI.NET>
Subject: please, help me.
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I have tried one thousand times to get off of this list. Please! Can
anybody help me?
Larry McLaughlin
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:27:49 -0400
Reply-To: lbth <bsa@ADVNET.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: lbth <bsa@ADVNET.NET>
Subject: Re: If I Were Not a Boy Scout?
X-To: Darryl Hammill <darryl.hammill@NCMAIL.NET>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I have several verses of "If I Were Not A Cub Scout" within the song
section of my website. http://dns.advnet.net/chuckh/songs/ifiwere.htm
Just change the word "Cub" to "Scout".
Leslie Herman
bsa@advnet.net
CubBobwhite EC-CS-19
ScoutBuffalo C-33-98
Blue Water Council, Port Huron, MI
http://dns.advnet.net/chuckh (Pow Wow OnLine)
----- Original Message -----
From: Darryl Hammill <darryl.hammill@NCMAIL.NET>
>
> I have often been to camps or camporees where groups perform the "If
I Were Not a Boy Scout" song and performance. I have searched high and
low for a written copy of it. Can anyone help with this?>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:07:16 -0600
Reply-To: Rik Bergethon <rberg@RMI.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Rik Bergethon <rberg@RMI.NET>
Subject: Leadership Games book
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I have been looking for the book "Leadership Games", by Steven Kaagen,
but I've had no luck at two book stores and the library. Now my piece
of paper with the title, author and isdn number is lost. Would whoever
posted the original note about this book, please post it again, so I can
check the spelling of the author, and the title of the book? Also, the
publisher, if possible. Thank you.
Rik Bergethon
Pueblo, CO
rberg@rmi.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:33:41 PDT
Reply-To: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Bob Costello <bobc775@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> To me, the last line quoted says it all as to why we withhold the patch.
>What kind of character development is there when the person who shirked his
>responsibilities gets the same rewards as the person who acted
>responsibility? Our society is filling up more and more with people who
>think the rules don't apply to them. I work in the school system, and way
>too
>many kids (high schoolers) blame teachers/administrators when they screw
>up.
>Nobody wants to be accountable anymore.
> I think withholding the patch stresses responsiblility/ group effort /
>and
>consequences. Three things that we don't see too much anymore.
>Susan O'Connell
>Baltimore
Well, Susan, perhaps you need to read further in my original note
where I said that OUR aims and methods should be paramount. Your
social agenda aside.
First, the child...and let's remember that is a child, not a teen,
not a young adult, not an adolescent...a child. Anyway, this child
was taken by his dad home. How does the child take responsibility
here? Would you have him disobey his dad and stay? maybe throw a
temper tantrum? But, you advocate withholding the patch from the
child..the boy, the cub. We aren't there to develop the dad, we are
there to develop the boy. And you will have to prove to me that
punishing someone for somehting that was out of their control will
teach them to be responsible for their actions. Quite the contrary,
it supports the notion that it doesn't matter what "I" do, the system
will screw me anyway.
Now, I will also take the devil's advocate approach that I saw
in another post a step further. What if the dad was feeling ill?
What if the boy was feeling ill? What if the dad thought the program
was not up to par (which might cause the presenters to look within)?
The point is there might be 1,000 reasons why the dad and son left
early.
But, consider this possiblity...the boy had a fabulous time.
He learned, he laughed, he made new friends. Now Sunday comes along
and dad say "Let's go", so the boy ...perhaps reluctantly...goes. But
he goes home giddy with the weekend. All he talks about all day is
what he did..the fun he had. Now, the pack meeting comes along. He
can't wait to get that patch and put it on his right pocket to proudly
show off...all the other boys are called up..one by one...and given
the patch with their dads...and he is denied. Put yourself in that
child's body and think how it would feel. Think of the crushing
feeling inside, think of the tears welling up. Now, you tell me
that THE RULE is important.
So, I'll say it again to all you RULE mongers...get over yourself.
It is a patch, a piece of enbroidered cloth. It's meaning is only
in the hearts of the boys. And if you can't see it through the boy's
eyes....maybe you need to find something other than scouting to do.
Bob Costello
Cubmaster - Pack 765 Scoutmaster - Troop 775
Westland Michigan - Detroit Area Council
Certified Trainer - Huron Valley Girl Scout Council
Former District Training Chair for Cub Scouts
Staff member for Scoutmastership Fundamentals
email: BobC775@hotmail.com
I used to be a bobwhite....- C-4-96
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:46:10 -0400
Reply-To: Forshaw <dtlfor@FORYOU.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Forshaw <dtlfor@FORYOU.NET>
Subject: Re: New Sports and Academic Requirements
In-Reply-To: <9910139398.AA939876680@ccgate.songs.sce.com>
When is the new program effective? In my Webelos den, I have some boys
that are currently working on their PF pin (for the Athlete activity
pin). I'm assuming they can continue with the current program. The
others haven't started yet. Should they do the old program or the new
one?
Thanks for the help.
- Tee
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:31:35 EDT
Reply-To: Yanksnum1@AOL.COM
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From: Bob Koch <Yanksnum1@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Leadership Games book
X-To: rberg@rmi.net
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<>
You can find it at Barnes and Noble (along with a review). I emailed my
local library and they are in the process of ordering it. Most libraries
will do that for you if they was value in the publication. I believe the
authors name is spelled "Kaagan", not "Kaagen"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:31:53 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Carswell Sr <robert@GFC.STATE.GA.US>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Robert Carswell Sr <robert@GFC.STATE.GA.US>
Subject: Digest
MIME-Version: 1.0
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What is the correct syntax to get the Digest for this site
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:56:52 -0600
Reply-To: The Young Family <doublefox@YUCCA.NET>
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From: The Young Family <doublefox@YUCCA.NET>
Subject: Leadership Games
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Leadership Games Stephen S. Kaagan ISBN 0-7619-1721-7
I got a great book from the library recently. It is titled "Leadership
Games" by Stephen S. Kaagan Publisher is SAGE and isbn # 0-7619-1721-7
1. Ways of Thinking About Leadership Development
2. Cueing the Exercises
3. Exercises on Risking Innovation
4. Exercisies on Fostering Collaboration
5. Exercisies on Managing Conflict
6. Exercisies on Using Diversity
7. The Exercisies in Play: A Story of Real Organizational Change
8.Conclusion
Each chapter of exercises has about six different games. Most require
very little preperation or equipment but seem to get the point across.
Jackie Young doublefox@yucca.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:41:22 -0500
Reply-To: jparker@CNG.DL.NEC.COM
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From: Jim Parker <jparker@CNG.DL.NEC.COM>
Subject: FW: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp
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Few thoughts:
* Before making a rash decision: Contact the parent and discuss the
situation in private.
* Enforcing "The Rule" is not worth loosing the boy.
* We are not here to punish but to lead.
I don't know about everyone else, but I feel that this thread has been
driven into the ground and propose that we move on.
Jim Parker
Webelos Den Leader - Pack 411, Plano, TX
http://pack411.hypermart.net/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:29 -0400
Reply-To: "J. Smith" <jsmith71@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
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From: "J. Smith" <jsmith71@TAMPABAY.RR.COM>
Subject: Leadership Games
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Just checked Barnes and Noble and Amazon.com. (search on Kaagan) Both
are the
November 1998 edition.
BN charges $29.95 for the book, says it's in stock, and will ship in 2-3
days.
Amazon.com charges $24.95, says it's a special order, and will ship in
4-6 weeks and
will notify you in 2-3 weeks if it can't get the book.
go figure.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:26:15 -0700
Reply-To: CHUCK BRAMLET <chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: CHUCK BRAMLET <chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Coping with "Scouter Burnout" - suggested reading...
X-To: WDBADGE-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
X-cc: chuckb@aztec2.asu.edu
(This actually has a broader scope than just "Scouters", here. It
can be read and used by any one from this age group. It deal mainly
with men in thier home and career situations.)
I have noticed that there seems to be a certain amount of burnout
involved with some of our leaders, both here and in our home units,
Councils, Districts. I have a suggestion that some might find
helpful.
I recently ran across a book by Gail Sheehe titled "Understanding
Men's Passages". It's a scary book, in how _close_ it gets to how we
feel at certain times. I found it a help in understanding myself,
and some of the ways I was feeling. It covers the 40s-60s and
beyond, and offers suggestions for coping with some common problems
we will run into and on how to avoid or minimize the impact of
others. I also found it a very easy read.
Although the book is intended to be read by men for men, some of the
gals might find it enlightening on dealing with males in their circle
of contacts, or even their spouses. Why we do what we do, when we do
it, and how we do it.
Hope this is helpful.
YiS,
Chuck Bramlet -- I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
ASM Troop 323, Firebird District, Grand Canyon Council, Phoenix, Az.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When we lose the right to be different, we lose the privilege to
be free." -- Charles Evans Hughes
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please direct personal replies to ----- mailto:chuckb@aztec.asu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:32 EDT
Reply-To: John Nelson <vwpog@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: John Nelson <vwpog@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
X-To: Fatclell@AOL.COM
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You know the funny thing about this. When the boys are cubs... they are
just dying to wear their uniform to school, to church, etc. They think it's
COOL! But at a point, they change and they no longer think it;s cool. If
we only could keep their minds in that COOL stage.
John
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:06:13 -0500
Reply-To: Cathy Porter <JCPorter@SICEMBEARS.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Cathy Porter <JCPorter@SICEMBEARS.COM>
Organization: Yeah...right
Subject: Online Official BSA Catalog
X-To: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@TCU.EDU>
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> http://www.scoutbasics.com
> >
> > We'd like to thank you again for being one of the first to visit us at
> > ScoutBasics.com, the newest, coolest, and soon to be most complete
> > Scouting website on the Internet.
> >
> >
I got an email from Scoutbasics.com the other day and finally checked it out.
It's got the complete Official BSA Catalog online. It looks great! It's fully
functional now and ready for orders.
--
Cathy Porter
Katy, Texas - Home of Champions
mailto:JCPorter@SicEmBears.com OR! JCPorter@SicEmBears.com
A good pun is it's own reword.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:08:32 -0600
Reply-To: Sean S Coleman <coleman@BOULDER.NIST.GOV>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sean S Coleman <coleman@BOULDER.NIST.GOV>
Subject: Handicapped Camporee in Chester County Council
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Is there anyone on this list from the Chester County Council that might
tell me about the Handicapp Camporee I read about on the Octoraro Lodge
website? I am working on developing a special needs committee here in
Boulder CO and am interested in activities other districts or councils
have done to help non-disabled scouts learn more about disabled people.
Thanks
Sean Coleman
Special Needs Chairman
Arapahoe District
Longs Peak Council
Boulder, CO
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:57:34 -0400
Reply-To: Lee Cornell <lcornell@ARCHES.UGA.EDU>
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From: Lee Cornell <lcornell@ARCHES.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Hello :)
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Greeting to all from Statham GA!
My oldest son has recently become a Tiger Cub in Pack 789, Yargo District,
Northeast GA Council and at his request I volunteered to be the Den
Coordinator. In addition to my Tiger Cub I have one more boy (age 3). I am a
Computer Service Specialist with the University of Georgia, School of
Environmental Design and although I have 1-2 years personal experience in
Boy Scouts, but am new to Cub Scouting but looking forward to experiencing
it with my sons.
I have been asked by our District Executive if I would step up and take the
position of Cubmaster (a decision I am still considering). In the past week
I have found a vast amount of information on the web to answer just about
every question I have had regarding being a cubmaster, but friends and
family are warning me against it. Their reasons include giving up a lot of
my free time, increased stress (on me and the family), and a bunch of
undefined headaches that come with the job. Thus far I haven't been able to
talk to the past Cubmaster, nor can I find anyone on the pack committee with
whom I can discuss the history of the pack. I have read about the rewards
that come from being an adult leader in scouting and have heard the
warnings, now I would like to hear from an individual who has done it. If
anyone has ever stepped into a position in scouts where the existing unit
structure is uncertain, but the boys are there waiting for a leader I would
really like to hear both the good and bad results of your decision.
Lee Cornell
Potential Cubmaster
Pack 789
Yargo District
Northeast Georgia Council
BSA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:18:04 -0700
Reply-To: "Glenn Jones (med-i-nets.com)" <gwjones@MED-I-NETS.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Glenn Jones (med-i-nets.com)" <gwjones@MED-I-NETS.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
Unfortunately, the "Uncool" thing happens about fifth grade ...
It was very interesting, last night we had our Pack meeting. My son (4th
grade Webelos) has swim team practice in the afternoon/early evening. He
showered and put on his uniform so that we could go straight from swim to
scouts. One of his teammates started talking about how "Cub Scouts was a
waste of time". My son vigorously defended Scouting, and starting talking
about why he thought it was cool - what is boiled down to was that he has an
opportunity to do things that are fun that he wouldn't normally be able to
do - hike with friends, camp with friends, meet with friends, do the rain
gutter regatta, etc.
Perhaps what we need to do is to figure out what goes on about the fifth
grade that all of a sudden makes the "goody two shoes" image of scouts
outweigh all of the "fun" that our boys are having. Any ideas?
YiS,
Glenn Jones
Cubmaster
Pack 17
Newport Beach, CA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:58:25 -0600
Reply-To: Joe Clay <koshare@RIA.NET>
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From: Joe Clay <koshare@RIA.NET>
Subject: WE'VE UPDATED!
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Even as we speak, the Koshare Web site is being completely updated. You can
have a lot of fun watching me mess it up over the next few days... please
let me know about missing links, busted gifs and so forth.
We are busy taking hostel reservations for Philmont crews and other Scouts
traveling through the west and are available 365 days a year. The Winter
Ceremonials will be 27-31 December.
We''re also setting the itinerary for our 2000 Long Trip, a 3-week show
tour that should take us along the Great Lakes, down the East Coast, and
back to Dallas. So if you're east of the Rockies and would like to talk
about a show in August, talk to us.
Carry on!
Joe Clay, Director of Programs
Koshare Indian Museum
115 West 18th Street, POB 580
La Junta, Colorado 81050
(719) 384-4411 / (800) 693-5482
FAX: (719) 384-8836
email: koshare@ria.net
Web Site: http://www.koshare.org
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:07:50 -0400
Reply-To: "Jim Miller Sr." <jjmsr@LSFCU.ORG>
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From: "Jim Miller Sr." <jjmsr@LSFCU.ORG>
Subject: Re: Leadership Games book
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Also found it at Amazon.com at:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761917217/qid=939927988/sr=1-2/0
02-3681406-4766604
Jim Miller, Sr.
JJMSR@LSFCU.ORG
HTTP://www.stefford.com/scoutingresume/
ASTA #3105
> You can find it at Barnes and Noble (along with a review). I emailed
> my
> local library and they are in the process of ordering it. Most
> libraries
> will do that for you if they was value in the publication. I believe
> the
> authors name is spelled "Kaagan", not "Kaagen"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:48:37 -0500
Reply-To: Rick Covington <Rick.Covington@USA.ALCATEL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Rick Covington <Rick.Covington@USA.ALCATEL.COM>
Organization: Alcatel USA, Inc.
Subject: New Mexico Summer Camps
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Hello,
Can members of the list please send to me their favorite summer camps
located in New Mexico. Last summer our troop went to Camp Frank Rand
and had a good time. We liked the mountains and want to return in July.
Do have any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rick Covington, SM Troop 874
First Christian Church of Carrollton, Texas
covingt@gte.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:49:44 -0400
Reply-To: Marc Godbout <godbout@LANCAST.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Marc Godbout <godbout@LANCAST.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
In-Reply-To: <001c01bf1668$13e444c0$0efea8c0@gjnotebook>
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>From my experience, the "uncool" attitude seems to show up more in the
7th and 8th grades. Most of the 1st and 2nd year Boy Scouts usually
have no problem wearing the uniform in public. The things they are
doing are new and "cool". And, probably not just coincidentally, the
attitude changes show up during the teenage years. Boys, while maybe
not ready to date yet, at least don't see girls as "gross". They have
friends who are also girls. It's now time to act "grown up".
Acting grown up means not associating with grownups. It's a time for
rebellion against grownups and their values. The BSA promotes strong
values, which also coincide with the values of most responsible parents.
So Boy Scouts, who promise to always do their best, to be helpful
(teacher's pet!!), to do their duty to God, etc., are just a bunch of
mama's boys who think they're perfect. "Goody-two-shoes" don't wear
leather jackets and are not rebellious, probably because they are afraid
to get punished. We have a sign outside our "clubhouse" - "No girls
allowed". The "cool" kids walk in the middle of the street, use
profanity, color their hair wildly, and usually get punished often for
their actions. Or sometimes the cool kids are jocks. They still walk
in the middle of the street and use profanity, though, but are more
likely to shave instead of color their hair. Rebellion is cool in the
teenage years, and Boy Scouts are everything but rebellious. "A scout
is obedient".
I don't think there's anything we'll ever be able to do about the
teenage years and the attitudes. We probably can help some boys with
positive self-images, but peer pressure is just way too strong for most,
I'm afraid. We spend maybe 2 hours a week and a weekend a month with
these boys at the most, while they spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week
surrounded by their peers.
All we have control over is our public image. Ask anyone, young or old,
what it means to be a Boy Scout, and the words "honest", "helpful", and
"be prepared" come up. Sometimes "camping" and "knots", but not
"kayaking" and "whitewater". Several people in this thread have
mentioned PR. IMHO, what we've got to do is show the fun things we do,
and, unfortunately, downplay the values. Maybe the message should be
more like "Here's the adventure and if you agree to play by our rules,
you, too, can take part".
I can see the 15 second commercial now. A bunch of boys in a raft
blasting though a series of class V standing waves. Then cut to a bunch
of kids walking in the middle of the street with the caption, "So what
did you do this weekend?" Fade to the fleur-de-lis and the words "Boy
Scouts of America". How much does a spot on MTV cost???
YiS,
Marc Godbout
SMA - Venture, Troop 98
Derry, NH
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Jones (med-i-nets.com) [mailto:gwjones@MED-I-NETS.COM]
> Unfortunately, the "Uncool" thing happens about fifth grade ...
>
> Perhaps what we need to do is to figure out what goes on
> about the fifth
> grade that all of a sudden makes the "goody two shoes" image of scouts
> outweigh all of the "fun" that our boys are having. Any ideas?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:22:47 -0400
Reply-To: "Paul S. Wolf" <PaulWolf@CUYCTYENGINEERS.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Paul S. Wolf" <PaulWolf@CUYCTYENGINEERS.ORG>
Organization: Cuyahoga County Engineer's Office
Subject: Re: Online Official BSA Catalog
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Cathy Porter wrote:
>
> http://www.scoutbasics.com
> > We'd like to thank you again for being one of the first to
> > visit us at ScoutBasics.com, the newest, coolest, and soon to be
> > most complete Scouting website on the Internet.
>
> I got an email from Scoutbasics.com the other day and finally checked
> it out. It's got the complete Official BSA Catalog online. It looks
> great! It's fully functional now and ready for orders.
The BSA Supply Service and the local council (Orange County) where they
are located have indicated that their franchise to sell Official BSA
Merchandise does NOT include the right to sell nationally on the
internet, only at their local retail stores. Don't be surprised if the
site shuts down soon. BSA is also a bit upset at their use and
modification of the BSA Supply Service Guarantee Logo.
It's too bad, but so far, BSA still doesn't want internet sales of their
merchandise, for some valid (and some not so valid) reasons.
--
Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:Paul.S.Wolf@alum.wpi.edu
Advancement/Safety Webmaster, USSSP http://www.usscouts.org
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:53:10 -0400
Reply-To: "Jeff L. Glaze" <jglaze@SUBASIC.SCIATL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Jeff L. Glaze" <jglaze@SUBASIC.SCIATL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
X-To: Marc Godbout <godbout@lancast.com>
In-Reply-To: <001701bf167d$44eb2f10$704184c0@lancast.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Another possible explanation for the "uncool" label on US Scouting
may be that many of the pre-teens and early teens who pick on
Boy Scouts remember their days as Cub Scouts, and assume
that Boy Scouts are still doing the same kinds of activities.
Cub Scouting has huge numbers, but the percentage who go on
to Boy Scouts is quite low. ... that leaves a lot of former Cub Scouts
among the peers of our Scouts who are making invalid assumptions
about Boy Scouts and the kinds of activities they do....
whaddya think?
YiS,
Jeff L. Glaze, webmaster
Button Gwinnett District Web Site
Atlanta Area Council, BSA
http://www.bsa.net/ga/aac/ned/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:45:53 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
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From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: A sticky topic
X-To: Embers@dynapolis.com
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Howdy Scouters
In the past 14 years I've held a whole bunch of positions in scouting so I
know about sticky topics. But whether it's Cubs, Boy Scouts or
District/Council posotions you may be called on to stick two objects together
for good. Perhaps it's a Cub Scout pinewood derby car that got a little too
much sandpapering, or maybe you are making those corny Annual District
Dinner Awards (you know, like a spark plug glued to a plaque). Maybe you
need to epoxy over a big hole in the side of the engine block on the Troop
van before the next campout or repair a cracked dutch oven for that tasty
peach cobbler.
Well scouters here it is, the official glue web site! And, thank goodness
it's in French as well for our Canadian Scouters as well:
http://www.thistothat.com/glue.cgi?lang=en
Gosh, I love the internet!
YOF
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:55:16 -0500
Reply-To: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Feast at Camp
X-To: Sandy Lenichek <Sqrnot@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <0.348db4a6.25367330@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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We've done this in the past. It's a great campout theme.
We usually do one or more turkeys, depending on the size of the group and
number of guests. You can try several different methods for cooking
turkeys; trash can turkey, the aluminum teepee, roasted on a spit, foil
cooked on coals, or what we'll be doing next month, deep fried turkey.
Each has it's own rewards.
In preparing the menu each Scout shares with us his favorite dishes from
his family's Thanksgiving dinner. Our campout banquet meal becomes a
composite of everyone's favorite traditional Thanksgiving meal. We've had
15 or more different dishes gracing the table.
We usually assign each Scout a dish to prepare. Maybe two people for the
turkey(s), others for stuffing, salads, relishes, vegetables, breads,
desserts, etc. Adults and older Scouts patrol the chefs to offer
suggestions, helpful hints, and do preemptive damage control.
Usually the most senior Scouts are in charge of the bird(s).
I'm usually assigned something no-cook like pickles or olives. I just do
a ceremonial "opening of the jar" to much deserved fanfare and applause.
We usually spend most of the morning working on the big banquet. We might
invite some parents to come out and dine with us. We usually eat about
1pm or 2pm.
Mothers who eat with us are always stunned that a group of boys can
prepare a deliscious Thanksgiving type feast. The boys are really proud
of their combined effort.
Those have been some of the best outdoor meals I've ever eaten.
For a late dinner we usually eat leftovers in traditional Thanksgiving
fashion.
Good luck to you.
YIS,
Cliff Golden
Scoutmaster Troop 33
DeKalb, Illinois
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Sandy Lenichek wrote:
> Hi I'm Sandy Lenichek, a Troop CC and Weebelos Leader from North Texas.
>
> The scouts in my troop want to have a Thanksgiving Feast when we go camping
> next month. Any Ideas?
>
> YIS
> Sandy 8-) (Sqrnot)
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:03:51 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Online Official BSA Catalog
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My first reaction may have been different based on my profession of
commercial photography. I looked at the site and wondered if the
photographer who shot the catalog for BSA is aware of these photos being used
by a second party distributor. When I shoot a catalog for a client I may or
may not give them a reuseage waiver, known as a "buyout". But I never grant
second party useage, i.e. the client may not pass on reuseage to someone
else. This is similar to the recent postings about Garfield useage. The site
may be in violation of federal copywrite law and the photographer could sue
in Federal Court for some really big bucks.
YOF
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:09:18 -0400
Reply-To: "Nancy D. Bass" <NDBass@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Nancy D. Bass" <NDBass@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Letter from Camp
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> Just thought I'd share this with some scout/camp veterans. Inspirational!
> >
> >
> >Dear Mom & Dad,
> >
> >Our scout master told us all to write to our parents in case you saw the
> >flood on TV and worried. We are OK. Only 1 of our tents and 2 of our
> >sleeping bags got washed away. Luckily, none of us got drowned because we
> >were all up on the mountain looking for Chad when it happened. Oh yes,
> >please call Chad's mother and tell her he is OK. He can't write because
of
> >the cast. I got to ride in one of the search & rescue jeeps. It was
neat.
> >We never would have found him in the dark if it hadn't been for all the
> >lightning.
> >
> >Scoutmaster Webb got mad at Chad for going on a hike alone without
telling
> >anyone. Chad said he did tell him, but it was during the fire so he
> >probably didn't hear him. Did you know that if you put gas on a fire,
the
> >gas will blow up? The wet wood still didn't burn, but one of our tents
did.
> >Also some of our clothes. John is going to look weird until his hair
> >grows back!
> >
> >We will be home on Saturday if Scoutmaster Webb gets the car fixed. It
> >wasn't his fault about the wreck. The brakes worked OK when we left.
> >Scoutmaster Webb said that a car that old you have to expect something to
> >break down; that's probably why he can't get insurance on it. We think
> >it's a neat car. He doesn't care if we get it dirty, and if it's hot,
> >sometimes he lets us ride on the tailgate. It gets pretty hot with 10
> >people in a car. He let us take turns riding in the trailer until the
> >highway patrolman stopped and talked to us. Scoutmaster Webb is a neat
> >guy. Don't worry, he is a good driver. In fact, he is teaching Terry how
> >to drive. But he only lets him drive on the mountain roads where there
> >isn't any traffic. All we ever see up there are logging trucks.
> >
> >This morning all of the guys were diving off the rocks and swimming out
in
> >the lake. Scoutmaster Webb wouldn't let me because I can't swim and Chad
> >was afraid he would sink because of his cast, so he let us take the canoe
> >across the lake. It was great. You can still see some of the trees
under
> >the water from the flood. Scoutmaster Webb isn't crabby like some
> >scoutmasters. He didn't even get mad about losing the life jackets.
> >
> >He has to spend a lot of time working on the car so we are trying not to
> >cause him any trouble.
> >
> >Guess what? We've all passed our first aid merit badges. When Dave dove
in
> >the lake and cut his arm, we got to see how a tourniquet works. Also,
Wade
> >and I threw up. Scoutmaster Webb said it probably was just food
poisoning
> >from the leftover chicken. He said they got sick that way with the food
> >they ate in prison. I'm so glad he got out and became our scoutmaster.
He
> >said he sure figured out how to get things done better while he was doing
> >his time.
> >
> >I have to go now. We are going into town to mail our letters and buy
> >bullets. Don't worry about anything. We are fine.
> >
> >Love,
> >Bobby
> >
> >P.S. How long has it been since I had a tetanus shot?
> >
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:46:11 -0500
Reply-To: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Leadership Games book
X-To: Rik Bergethon <rberg@RMI.NET>
In-Reply-To: <3805C774.D8C9C370@rmi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
"Leadership Games" by Stephen S. Kaagan
c 1999 Sage Publications; Thousand Oaks, CA
ISBN 0761917217
Some have mentioned you can buy it through Amazon, etc.
If you'd like to look at it before you buy, or use it free, visit your
local library and search the following call numbers for the book...
Dewey Decimal call number
658.407124 K11L
or Library of Congress call number
HD57.7 .K3 1999
YIS,
Cliff Golden
Scoutmaster Troop 33
DeKalb, Illinois
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:06:23 -0500
Reply-To: Thomas Bizzell <thomas@BIZZELL.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Thomas Bizzell <thomas@BIZZELL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Letter from Camp
X-To: "Nancy D. Bass" <NDBass@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Reminds me of the 1985 Scout Jamboree and Huricane Bob. The troop from
my council had soemthing like this posted outsied their campsite:
Dear Mom,
Troop 788 ok.
Dear Lord Baden,
We were prepared. Kind of.
Dear Lord,
Why ?
"Nancy D. Bass" wrote:
>
> > Just thought I'd share this with some scout/camp veterans. Inspirational!
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear Mom & Dad,
> > >
> > >Our scout master told us all to write to our parents in case you saw the
> > >flood on TV and worried. We are OK. Only 1 of our tents and 2 of our
> > >sleeping bags got washed away. Luckily, none of us got drowned because we
> > >were all up on the mountain looking for Chad when it happened. Oh yes,
> > >please call Chad's mother and tell her he is OK. He can't write because
> of
> > >the cast. I got to ride in one of the search & rescue jeeps. It was
> neat.
> > >We never would have found him in the dark if it hadn't been for all the
> > >lightning.
> > >
> > >Scoutmaster Webb got mad at Chad for going on a hike alone without
> telling
> > >anyone. Chad said he did tell him, but it was during the fire so he
> > >probably didn't hear him. Did you know that if you put gas on a fire,
> the
> > >gas will blow up? The wet wood still didn't burn, but one of our tents
> did.
> > >Also some of our clothes. John is going to look weird until his hair
> > >grows back!
> > >
> > >We will be home on Saturday if Scoutmaster Webb gets the car fixed. It
> > >wasn't his fault about the wreck. The brakes worked OK when we left.
> > >Scoutmaster Webb said that a car that old you have to expect something to
> > >break down; that's probably why he can't get insurance on it. We think
> > >it's a neat car. He doesn't care if we get it dirty, and if it's hot,
> > >sometimes he lets us ride on the tailgate. It gets pretty hot with 10
> > >people in a car. He let us take turns riding in the trailer until the
> > >highway patrolman stopped and talked to us. Scoutmaster Webb is a neat
> > >guy. Don't worry, he is a good driver. In fact, he is teaching Terry how
> > >to drive. But he only lets him drive on the mountain roads where there
> > >isn't any traffic. All we ever see up there are logging trucks.
> > >
> > >This morning all of the guys were diving off the rocks and swimming out
> in
> > >the lake. Scoutmaster Webb wouldn't let me because I can't swim and Chad
> > >was afraid he would sink because of his cast, so he let us take the canoe
> > >across the lake. It was great. You can still see some of the trees
> under
> > >the water from the flood. Scoutmaster Webb isn't crabby like some
> > >scoutmasters. He didn't even get mad about losing the life jackets.
> > >
> > >He has to spend a lot of time working on the car so we are trying not to
> > >cause him any trouble.
> > >
> > >Guess what? We've all passed our first aid merit badges. When Dave dove
> in
> > >the lake and cut his arm, we got to see how a tourniquet works. Also,
> Wade
> > >and I threw up. Scoutmaster Webb said it probably was just food
> poisoning
> > >from the leftover chicken. He said they got sick that way with the food
> > >they ate in prison. I'm so glad he got out and became our scoutmaster.
> He
> > >said he sure figured out how to get things done better while he was doing
> > >his time.
> > >
> > >I have to go now. We are going into town to mail our letters and buy
> > >bullets. Don't worry about anything. We are fine.
> > >
> > >Love,
> > >Bobby
> > >
> > >P.S. How long has it been since I had a tetanus shot?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:11:22 -0400
Reply-To: Dave Colangelo <dcolangelo@AMERITECH.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Dave Colangelo <dcolangelo@AMERITECH.NET>
Subject: Re: Service to America Report form
X-To: John Conley <iti@FRONTIERNET.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi John
Troop 209 completed our 12 hours at Gettysburg Battlefield in August.
I am also looking for the "Service to America" patch, I received the
NPS/BSA patch (which is a beautiful patch).
I heard that the "Service to America" program was one of the optional
tasks to earn Quality Unit. I'm waiting for our re-charter time to see
if the form is part of the recharter packet. Other than that, I guess my
next option is our OA chapter.
YIS
Dave Colangelo
Clinton Valley Council, Michigan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:25:27 EDT
Reply-To: DSearstoni@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: David Edward Sears <DSearstoni@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: If I Were Not a Boy Scout?
X-To: darryl.hammill@ncmail.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Darryl,
I've found it in a few references before. Try a word search for scout songs
to find more. Here are a couple of pages.
http://dns.advnet.net/chuckh/songs/ifiwere.htm
http://dns.advnet.net/chuckh/songs/index.htm
YIS
Dave Sears
Used to be an Owl/Staffer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:02:31 EDT
Reply-To: Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Feast at Camp
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 99-10-13 19:54:06 EDT, Sandy Lenichek wrote:
<< The scouts in my troop want to have a Thanksgiving Feast when we go camping
next month. Any Ideas? >>
Sandy,
When I was an SA (not that many years ago), our troop used to do a
complete Thanksgiving dinner--turkey, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes,
veggies, stuffing, gravy, buns, pies, coffee.... We tried different ways of
doing the turkey over the years; we'd usually use the ovens at the cabins we
were in (until they were closed off permanenty), but one year we had parents
cook them at home and bring them up to camp at dinner time, even had one
roasted over an open fire one year--and was that ever GOOD! The whole
weekend was a Scout/adult affair, too; usually meant a father, but was
sometimes a mother, older brother, or cousin. Add in other family members at
dinner and a 30-member troop dinner became an affair for 75. The year we
rented four cabins the camp ranger let us use the training center for the
dinner at
no additional charge; all we had to do was clean it up real well.
And after dinner we always did songs, skits; got the adults involved, too,
and some of their antics were something to behold.
Ralph V. Balfoort, Unit Commissioner
Albany, NY
I used to be a Beaver.... (NE III-135)
In the Beaver Patrol as a Scout, too,
and now Ktemaque (Beaver) Chapter,
Haudenosaunee Lodge #19, OA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:03:54 EDT
Reply-To: John Nelson <vwpog@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: John Nelson <vwpog@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Program helps
X-To: Cub-Scout-Talk@onelist.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Can someone tell me where the Program Helps book is in the BSA catalog? I
can't seem to find a product number anywhere so I can order one.
Thanks,
John
Pack 71
Perry Ohio
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:24:05 EDT
Reply-To: Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Coast Guard cutters
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In a message dated 99-10-14 04:23:13 EDT, Thomas Heavey, Sr., wrote:
<< The Coast Guard's (America's) Tall Ship is the USCGC (US Coast Guard
Cutter)
EAGLE. >>
Can't remember the exact length (Is it 65 feet?), but ALL Coast Guard
ships above that point are called cutters, even ice breakers. It goes back
to when the they used "revenue cutters" to enforce the trade laws on the U.S.
coast.
And, at least in peace time, I seem to remember that the Coast Guard is
not part of the Department of Defense; used to be Dept of Commerce, but it
might be Dept. of Transportation now. Anyone know for sure?
Ralph V. Balfoort, Unit Commissioner
Albany, NY
I used to be a Beaver.... (NE III-135)
In the Beaver Patrol as a Scout, too,
and now Ktemaque (Beaver) Chapter,
Haudenosaunee Lodge #19, OA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:31:29 -0400
Reply-To: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
Subject: Re: Online Official BSA Catalog
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>From some previous postings:
><snip><
> >
> > I got an email from Scoutbasics.com the other day and finally checked
> > it out. It's got the complete Official BSA Catalog online. It looks
> > great! It's fully functional now and ready for orders.
>
> The BSA Supply Service and the local council (Orange County) where they
> are located have indicated that their franchise to sell Official BSA
> Merchandise does NOT include the right to sell nationally on the
> internet, only at their local retail stores. Don't be surprised if the
> site shuts down soon. ><snipsnipsnip><
In case you haven't noticed (and the National Council sure
hasn't noticed), the INTERNET has changed everything,......
EVERYTHING.
But, in some places, the Luddites are still firmly in
control.
For this reason, SCOUTNET 2000 is doomed to fail. Imagine
trying to design a distributed database system but that
system will be implemented under pure hierarchical control.
1970's IBM Mainframe mentality.
And lord forbid that the membership should actually have
access to BSA National. Imagine someone might actually get
their hands on some useful information. Or even worse,
someone might be exposed to a dissenting opinion, or have to
answer a question. Worse yet, there's email. Far too
empowering - that email stuff. Oh no!
--
Rich Locke
Williamsburg,VA
mailto:rfl@offpro.net
Plutonium Iraq Assassinate Militia Cryptographic
Tritium
I'm paranoid too so I'm checking to see if NSA is still on
the job.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:29:00 -0400
Reply-To: Ed Milbrada <milbrada@FUSE.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Ed Milbrada <milbrada@FUSE.NET>
Subject: Presentation Ceremony for Scouter Training Award
MIME-Version: 1.0
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One of the members of my Roundtable staff has earned the Scouters
Training Award as a Roundtable Staff member. I'm looking for ceremony
ideas where we can recognize her achievement and encourage others to
become involved with Roundtable.
As a Cub Roundtable Commissioner I'm always on the lookout for folk who
are interested in helping out beyond the Pack level and thought a
ceremony where a person is recognized that also points out the benefits
of being on Roundtable might be a way to spark interest.
YIS
Ed Milbrada
Cub Roundtable Commr
Ft Hamilton District
Dan Beard Council (Cincinnati)
Asst Scoutmaster Troop 947
I used to be an Eagle
C-7-99
(Working my Ticket)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:37:37 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Haar <rhaar@MI.VERIO.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Robert Haar <rhaar@MI.VERIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Feast at Camp
In-Reply-To: <0.6706185.2537c917@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> From: Scouts-L Youth Group List [mailto:Scouts-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
> In a message dated 99-10-13 19:54:06 EDT, Sandy Lenichek wrote:
>
> << The scouts in my troop want to have a Thanksgiving Feast when
> we go camping
> next month. Any Ideas? >>
>
> When I was an SA (not that many years ago), our troop used to do a
> complete Thanksgiving dinner--turkey, mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes,
> veggies, stuffing, gravy, buns, pies, coffee.... We tried
> different ways of
> doing the turkey over the years; we'd usually use the ovens at
> the cabins we
> were in (until they were closed off permanenty), but one year we
> had parents
> cook them at home and bring them up to camp at dinner time, even had one
> roasted over an open fire one year--and was that ever GOOD!
The techniques that we use is to hang the turkey in a heavy raost bag
from a steel tripod and put charcoal fires around this. The charcoal
goes into a chicken wire tube about 4 or 5 inches in diameter. To cook
faster, run a layer of aluminum foil around the outside of the fires.
As the charcoal burns down, add more at the top. Cook for four
or five hours depending on size (use a meat thermometer to tell.
The result is wonderful - moist and delicious.
One key point - hang the bird by wiring the legs to a chain on the
tripod. Down tie it up or depend on the bag to hold the weight of
the bird.
You can cook bread, pies and other pastries by putting them inside
the fire ring, siting on a few small rocks.
-----------------------------------------
Robert Haar
ASM, BSA T188, Rochester Hills, MI
email: rhaar@mi.verio.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:12:18 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Online Official BSA Catalog
X-To: Cathy Porter <JCPorter@SICEMBEARS.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hey Cathy!
You wrote:
>I got an email from Scoutbasics.com the other day and finally checked it out.
>It's got the complete Official BSA Catalog online. It looks great! It's fully
>functional now and ready for orders.
Unfortunately, Cathy, they are going to be shortly asked to suspend their
online catalog. The problem is that the BSA's Supply Division didn't
authorize them -- or anyone else -- to resell BSA merchandise via the
Internet's World Wide Web.
I've got more information on them to post later onward.
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:37:11 -0500
Reply-To: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: golden cliff <c60clg1@CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU>
Subject: camporee "Eco-Challenge"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
For those looking for Camporee themes.
I recently chaired our District Fall Camporee. Our theme was
"Eco-Challenge", after Discovery Channel's multi-sport adventure race.
We conducted the camporee on a 650 acre camp called Lutheran Outdoor
Ministries Center, just south of Oregon, Illinois.
We had 8 scoring events plus a quick campsite inspection. The morning
sessions were 9:00am to 12:00pm, with afternoon sessions 1:30pm to
4:30pm. They traveled in a round robin style to the events.
Troop were scored on...
- Compass Game
- Orienteering Hike
- Fly Fishing
- Wall Challenge
- Tires Challenge
- Swinging Log Challenge
- Search & Rescue
- Scout Scrabble
- Campsite Inspection
Compass Game
------------
Standard BSA compass game straight from National Supply. Good for compass
review before orienteering hike.
Orienteering Hike
-----------------
About a 2 mile orienteering course over rolling prairie and woodland. They
had to answer 5 questions which could only be answered by finding certain
markers.
Fly Fishing
-----------
Program coordinator for a local outdoor outfitter came to teach technique.
Wall Challenge
--------------
Station requiring group to get everyone over a high wall.
Tire Challenge
--------------
Station involving 5 tires suspended on wires, must cross distance
swinging from tire to tire.
Swinging Log Challenge
----------------------
A large log suspended by cables swinging back and forth. Scout must walk
length of log relying on others for balance.
Search & Rescue Challenge
-------------------------
Conducted in area of sandstone cliffs, must find and rescue lost Scout.
Scout Scrabble
--------------
Wide area game at end of day. Each Scout given a letter of the alphabet.
He must find other Scouts with letters to spell a word. Word must have a
minimum of 4 letters and include Scouts from at least 3 different troops.
Various letters given more/less point value similar to scrabble. They
were free to choose their own words, governed by Scouting ideals and good
taste.
The final Scoring activity; Campsite Inspection
-----------------------------------------------
This was conducted by Senior Patrol Leaders. The SPLs met as a group to
talk with the Campfire coordinator to report which skits/songs their
troops were doing for the evening campfire. The SPLs then went on an
inspection of all campsites. Each SPL acted as tour guide for his
campsite. SPLs worked together to evaluate each campsite, judging only on
health, safety, and general appearance. No adults were involved in this,
only SPLs.
We had an ecumenical church service Saturday night followed by a campfire
program. Both went extremely well.
Everyone enjoyed the events and the weekend. All troops did well, with
the top troops within a point or two apart including a three way tie for
3rd Place. All troops were awarded a blue ribbon except the top scoring
troop which received a red/white/blue ribbon.
The patch is patterned loosely after the "Eco-Challenge" logo.
YIS,
Cliff Golden
Scoutmaster Troop 33
DeKalb, IL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:58:23 EDT
Reply-To: TTilford@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Terry A. Tilford" <TTilford@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello :)
X-To: lcornell@arches.uga.edu
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Lee,
As a past Cubmaster and Scoutmaster, I would do it all again.
My son is working on his Eagle Project now. He started Cubs
in the 2nd grade and earned his Arrow of Light. I have been there
since the start and these have been the best years of my life
watching my son grow into the young man before us.
I am presently working as the OA Chapter Advisor for Yona-hi
in Mowogo Lodge. I have given up somethings for scouting, but
I plan on being around a long time to enjoy some of those
things I passed up on for my scouting past time.
Just remember, "Success only comes before Work in the dictionary".
YIS
Terry Tilford
OA Chapter Advisor - Yona-hi
Mowogo Lodge #243
Northeast Georgia Council
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:58:32 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Speaking of retrieving old records
X-To: BMayhew65@AOL.COM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bob Mayhew wrote and asked:
>I have recently been informed that one of our adult Scouters was recommended,
>and approved, for one of the Heroism Medals as a youth (approximately 20
>years ago).
>(details of heroism deleted only for space)
>He turned down the award, stating that he was doing a job that he was being
>paid to do (as a lifeguard), and "should not have been submitted for such an
>honor".
>
>Who would we contact to see if there is any record of his award being
>approved by National?
Contact the BSA's National Court of Honor, S311, at the BSA's National
Office address, Bob. I don't have the name of the professional advisor to
the National Court of Honor...but the address is good.
Provide as much information as you can, and please include the city and
state (if you know it!) of the location of the act. This will help to "pin
it down" because as you're aware, the BSA doesn't keep records by Council
name (they change all of the time) but rather through Council Headquarters
City and State.
Hope this helps out!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:07:30 -0400
Reply-To: "Paul S. Wolf" <paul.s.wolf@ALUM.WPI.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Paul S. Wolf" <paul.s.wolf@ALUM.WPI.EDU>
Organization: Cuyahoga County Engineer's Office
Subject: Re: Coast Guard cutters
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alpvalsys@AOL.COM wrote:
> And, at least in peace time, I seem to remember that the Coast
> Guard is not part of the Department of Defense; used to be Dept of
> Commerce, but it might be Dept. of Transportation now. Anyone know
> for sure?
Yes, the Coast Guard is part of the U. S. Dept. of Transportation.
--
Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:Paul.S.Wolf@alum.wpi.edu
Advancement/Safety Webmaster, USSSP http://www.usscouts.org
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:38:31 EDT
Reply-To: MarciaTX@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Marcia Trudeau <MarciaTX@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Coast Guard cutters
X-To: Alpvalsys@aol.com
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The USCG comes under the Dept. of Transportation. Several of the Icebreakers
and cutters used to be moored in Seattle. They used to do a lot of the
repairs in Bellingham. If you can get a tour for the boys on one of the
Icebreakers, it is really interesting. roll in the breakers, which is The
walls are very thick to keep out the cold, and they have some neat
tracking/navigation devices.
Marcia Trudeau
ASM, Troop 132
Harlingen, TX
Ex Coast Guard Employee...Wonderful Job!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:36:16 -0700
Reply-To: Gary Hendra <Gary@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Gary Hendra <Gary@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Info please
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Hey, Scouts-L'ers! Do you suppose we could come up with a few uniform
parts and send them to this Scouter in Davie, Florida, so that the
kids there do not have to miss out on Scouting?
>From: "Kelly A. Mulvihill" <BIKERBRAND@prodigy.net>
>To: <scoutshops@macscouter.com>
>Subject: Info please
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:28:38 -0000
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Rcpt-To: scoutshops@macscouter.com
>
>Hi
> I have 2 boys who have enjoyed scouting for the past 3 yrs, we
>recently moved to Davie Fl. and there are a few children who cannot
>afford uniforms and such. Im looking for something like a scout
>thrift shop or something like that in this area, Ive passed on
>whatever my boys have grown out of but thats about all I can do for
>them, I hate to see a child miss out on this for lack of funds, and
>I dont know where to begin searching, If you could send my any info.
>I would greatly appriciate it, Ive tried local thrift shops but had
>no luck as of yet. Thank you -
>Kelly Housh 1-877-823-7181 BIKERBRAND@PRODIGY.net
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
R. Gary Hendra W6NOE The MacScouter http://www.macscouter.com
SM Boy Scout Troop 92 & UC Cub Scout Pack 92, Milpitas, CA
"I used to be an Antelope, and a good old Antelope too..." WE3-55-96
US Scouting Service Project, VP of Program, http://www.usscouts.org
gary@macscouter.com FTP Admin for USSSP(clipart.usscouts.org) 1hr/wkNOT!
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Hey, Scouts-L'ers! Do you suppose we could come up with a few uniform
parts and send them to this Scouter in Davie, Florida, so that the kids
there do not have to miss out on Scouting?
<excerpt>From: "Kelly A. Mulvihill" <<BIKERBRAND@prodigy.net>
To: <<scoutshops@macscouter.com>
Subject: Info please
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:28:38 -0000
X-Priority: 3
X-Rcpt-To: scoutshops@macscouter.com
<smaller>Hi
</smaller><bigger> I have 2 boys who have enjoyed scouting for the past
3 yrs, we recently moved to Davie Fl. and there are a few children who
cannot afford uniforms and such. Im looking for something like a scout
thrift shop or something like that in this area, Ive passed on whatever
my boys have grown out of but thats about all I can do for them, I
hate to see a child miss out on this for lack of funds, and I dont know
where to begin searching, If you could send my any info. I would
greatly appriciate it, Ive tried local thrift shops but had no luck as
of yet. Thank you -
Kelly Housh 1-877-823-7181
BIKERBRAND@PRODIGY.net
</bigger></excerpt><bigger></bigger>
<fontfamily><param>Monaco</param>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
R. Gary Hendra W6NOE The MacScouter http://www.macscouter.com
SM Boy Scout Troop 92 & UC Cub Scout Pack 92, Milpitas, CA
"I used to be an Antelope, and a good old Antelope too..." WE3-55-96
US Scouting Service Project, VP of Program, http://www.usscouts.org
gary@macscouter.com FTP Admin for USSSP(clipart.usscouts.org) 1hr/wkNOT!
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+</fontfamily>
--============_-1272163918==_ma============--
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:23:49 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: ScoutBasics.com and Online uniforms.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The bottom line is:
You can ONLY purchase uniforms online through the J.C. Penney's catalog
right now. The BSA is slowly making plans to make available SOME items
through a website, but not anytime soon.
The story about ScoutBasics.com:
Basics Clothing Store (for which ScoutBasics.com gets their name from) is an
authorized BSA distributor in Orange County Council, California. They have
been selling BSA items in their store for many years.
Recently, they decided to take their BSA sales online, and didn't consult
the Regional staff in Sunnyvale, California as to whether or not it would be
"legal to do." It's not. The BSA's distributorship agreement with them
only allows them to sell BSA-labeled items from their store. The BSA has
allowed many stores to accept "snail mail" (regular USPS mail), fax and
recently email orders, but it's a one way deal: the store cannot illustrate
nor advertise official BSA merchandise through their commerical websites or
even in print ads.
Why not?? What's the problem??
The problem is something that was just recently brought to my attention:
many of the companies which the BSA provides items through the Supply
Division also provide their own RETAIL versions of the products through
other stores (clothing stores, sporting goods stores, outdoors stores). The
BSA signed agreements with those companies stating that they won't compete
against those companies with regard to the items that they make "BSA
versions" of in exchange for exclusive versions of the items.
For instance, Coleman makes a Peak 1 stove exclusively for the BSA but they
also make and sell to other stores a version of the Peak 1 that looks
"really close" to the BSA's version.
The other item which didn't make the BSA really happy with the Basics people
is that they took a BSA logo -- a brand new Supply Division logo which had
just been released in connection with this year's theme.....and modified it
to make it their logo on their site, without the BSA's permission to do so.
So, the BSA's Western Region (which had to deal with several like sites over
the last three or four months) has asked them to take their site down and
not to conduct any business over their website.
Here's what I wrote to the US Scouting Service Project and to Scouters'
Journal (tm) about the firm:
-------------include extracted note----------------------
The BSA and the Orange County Council says "nope." The Western Region's
Supply Division representative went onward to say that Basics did not
receive Supply Division (i.e. his) permission to sell their items in any
other way other than through their retail store. That's the ONLY agreement
that the BSA has with them...to resell BSA-branded merchandise through
walk-in sales in their store.
In the Western Region, this has become a big deal of sorts...there's "three
or four outfits" out there that are selling BSA items through websites.
Expect the BSA to send out a reminder to everyone (Councils) in the next
couple of weeks.
Nothing prevents a retailer from accepting emailed or faxed orders - it is
completely up to each retailer to offer that service. However, the BSA does
not want its merchandise to be sold directly over the Internet because in
many cases, they have purchased items which are also sold retail under their
own labels (Coleman stoves, backpacks, etc.) and those firms do a "Boy Scout
version" for the BSA with the understanding that they won't go into open
market competition with their regular retail items.
(I didn't think about that part!)
Additionally, as I wrote earlier, the BSA would prefer that Scouters and
parents come into local Council service centers and their trademarked "Scout
Shops" in an effort to increase sales and to offer a high degree of service
to parents and Scouters. "That's why we hire Supply Division employees to
work in our Scout Shops!"
The Supply Division is also pissed because Basics modified their "guarantee
logo" which the BSA has recently took the wraps off of and are trying to get
local Councils to use it in their newsletters and other items which go
outward to the volunteers. Basics placed "ScoutBasics" in the center of the
logo to create a "look alike" logo.
Parker Edmons is the Orange County Council's Scout Shop(tm) manager in
Garden Grove. Orange County Council has five Scout Shops (tm) plus fourteen
other locations including Basics Clothing Store, in which Scouting items can
be purchased.
Parker is the person I spoke with, and whom relayed the information from the
Western Region this morning to me.
So...
*How do we respond to future inquiries knowing that ScoutBasics.com is out
there?
The statement I posted earlier and which Mike Bowman posted to our website
is accurate and needs no modification. ScoutBasics.com will be asked to take
their website down (it's going to be costly, because they also purchased
banner ads on Yahoo and Snap). In the meantime, we can expect to continue
receiving inquiries about where to get Scouting uniforms and/or insignia online.
------------------------------end included posting ------------------------
The Scoutbasics.com people had a great thing there, but they didn't
followthru by asking the BSA for permission to sell BSA items through their
website and in modifying the BSA Supply Division logo.
We ALL want online access to make things easier....we can get most of our
"starter stuff" from Penney's, using Penney's catalog which *is* authorized
by the BSA.
Anything else above that, should be obtained by calling, faxing or (in those
Councils that will do so) emailing the Council's trading post.
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:01:36 -0500
Reply-To: Howard J Wisdom <hjwisdom@JUNO.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Howard J Wisdom <hjwisdom@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Thanksgiving feast
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It is possible to do the majority of the meal on a campout-just make sure
that you are not too far from home. I have seen turkeys BBQ'd on kettles
in oven cooking bags, I have likewise seen/done smoking of turkeys(good
eating), mashed potatoes, pies, dressing, etc. There are some short cuts
which make a lot of this more manageable. Such as: instant mashed
potatoes(it really takes a lot of time to hand peel potatoes for about 75
people. Instant gravy-I know the real thing is better-but it takes a lot
more time. And who doesn't like Stove Top or comparable dressing. We
have made fruit filling pies by using canned fruit filling and ready made
crusts and baked the pies on the kettles. Turkeys are far and away the
more time consuming item - it generally takes about 11 minutes per pound
of turkey being cooked on the grill. I am not sure how long with oven
bags. Once the bird is cooked - it needs to cool and then carved. I have
found that there aren't a lot of adults who are very knowledgeable in how
to carve turkeys. There is really no clean way to do it. I have also
found that it doesn't take a whole lot longer to carve a larger bird than
a small bird- just longer to cook. Some specialty food items we have had
parents prepare at home.
Of course, we prepared the Thanksgiving Meal as a family outing. Here in
the Midwest, we have found that the first weekend in November can range
from really nice to cold, rainy and windy. As a consequence, we have
generally tried to have the meal to be around 3:30 pm. this way we could
get the meal eaten and cleaned up before darkness sets in. With planning
a Thanksgiving Feast in the out of doors can be accomplished.
The foods that can be mixed with water to be made can be done by the
boys(except the gravy-if you don't want lumps). The pies can be made by
the boys with supevision from knowledgeable adults.
For turkeys, I generally let the bird cool for awhile, as it can be very
hot immediately after cooking. I begin by stripping the skin off of the
bird with a fork. From there I progress by pulling the wings out and
cutting them off up against the body of the bird. I next do the legs. At
this point in time, you have several pieces off of the bird and it may be
cool enough to handle the main part of the bird. I have figured out a way
to cut the breast meat off of the carcass intact. If you can accomplish
this task then the breast meat is sliced across the grain of the meat. I
usually strip the meat off of the leg and wing pieces. The leg pieces
have the tendons or whatever in them. By stripping off the meat, this
removes those somewhat boney pieces from the bird. There are some meaty
sections on the backside which is edible.
The wing tip is usually cut off and discarded. It can be cut off before
cooking and cooked with the neck and giblets. The wing tip doesn't have
much meat, I personally prefer to cook the bird and cut off and discard
the wing tips later.
The giblets and necks can be boiled with salt, pepper, onions and celery.
I prefer to boil the neck until it falls apart. The meat is easier to
separate from the bones at this stage. The gizzards need to have a
lengthwise slit down through the thickest part to the gristle? backing
but not all the way through. This way the gizzard won't cook into a hard
ball. I haven't found the tail piece to be worth saving. It is a lot of
fat for not a lot of meat.
In looking over what I have written, I hope that I haven't scared you
away from trying this experience. My troop has done it for many years and
on the nice days out the families have really had a good time being
together and eating together. You get to know families as well as the
boys. For the leaders that work with the boys, it is extremely helpful
in knowing about what the family is like. Sometimes questions are
answered that may have been bothersome in the past.
Here's wishing you sucess in your Thanksgiving Feast.
YiS
Howard Wisdom
Heart of America Council
T-338 Thunderbird District
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:11:25 -0700
Reply-To: CHUCK BRAMLET <chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: CHUCK BRAMLET <chuckb@AZTEC.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Proper Flags at RT Opening
X-To: BSRT@dynapolis.com, WDBADGE-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
X-cc: Chuck.Bramlet@cas.honeywell.com
Well, I've heard of ridiculous things happening at RT before, but
this one (to me) takes the cake. In a way, I guess it's my fault -
I forgot the old maxim "It's easier to get forgiveness than
permission".
I was asked at the last minute to do the opening. There were no
flags in the building, so I spoke with one of the fellows
coordinating the rendezvous event that will be help along with our
camporee next week. He had the rendezvous flag - the 15 star, 15
stripe flag, a copy of the flag flown over Ft. HcHenry during the War
of 1812.
Hearing that the DE had had a problem with this before, I asked him,
and no, he'd rather we didn't use it for the pledge, as it wasn't the
current flag. Now, I'm a bit with flags like the Uniform Insignia
Guide is with uniforms. Once valid, always valid. As far as I am
concerned, this was a valid flag. _Particularly_ this historic one.
So, am I correct, that we should have been able to use this flag?
Especially with the rendezvous coming up? Or is the DE correct, and
it's not current so we can't pledge to it? BTW, I _am_ aware that the
use the historic replicas at Scoutcamp as well as at Wood Badge. That
isn't what I'm addressing. I'm interested in _law_ and _custom_.
There are a few of us that are a mite "upset" over this.
If you respond privately to me, please ID the list that you are
responding from. I'm posting this question to three.
YiS,
Chuck Bramlet -- I "used to be" an Antelope! WEM-10-95 Member DNRC
ASM Troop 323, Firebird District, Grand Canyon Council, Phoenix, Az.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When we lose the right to be different, we lose the privilege to
be free." -- Charles Evans Hughes
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please direct personal replies to ----- mailto:chuckb@aztec.asu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:42:29 -0700
Reply-To: Gary Hendra <Gary@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Gary Hendra <Gary@MACSCOUTER.COM>
Subject: Accessing the MacScouter site
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Some of you may be having difficulty accessing the MacScouter web
site, at http://www.macscouter.com. The site is popular with
Scouters around the world. In fact the traffic on the site exceeds
the 200 megabyte per day limit set by my ISP almost every hour. My
ISP is rather draconian about that -- they drop off the 24th hour at
the beginning of each hour. That means that you will have a better
chance to get on the site just after the turn of each hour.
As you know, my site is very skimpy on graphics, so the problem would
not be solved by either manipulating or deleting the graphics files
-- might be a 10% improvement.
The problem will be solved in a short time, hopefully within about 3
weeks, as the whole site moves to a new server without throughput
limitations.
So please be patient, and try to access the site after the turn of
each hour instead of before the hour. I'm sorry for any
inconvenience.
Yours in Scouting...Gary, the MacScouter
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
R. Gary Hendra W6NOE The MacScouter http://www.macscouter.com
SM Boy Scout Troop 92 & UC Cub Scout Pack 92, Milpitas, CA
"I used to be an Antelope, and a good old Antelope too..." WE3-55-96
US Scouting Service Project, VP of Program, http://www.usscouts.org
gary@macscouter.com FTP Admin for USSSP(clipart.usscouts.org) 1hr/wkNOT!
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:13:13 -0700
Reply-To: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Thomas Heavey, Sr." <heavey@NWRAIN.COM>
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Cutters
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Ralph wrote:
And, at least in peace time, I seem to remember that the Coast Guard is
not part of the Department of Defense; used to be Dept of Commerce, but it
might be Dept. of Transportation now. Anyone know for sure?
Ralph and gang:
The US Coast Guard, the oldest continuous serving naval force in the United
States, is under the command of the Secretary of Transportation. From its
inception on August 4, 1790 until about 1970, the USCG was a part of the
Department of the Treasury. (During WWII, the Coast Guard was put under the
War Department.) The Coast Guard served in VietNam and the Persian Gulf
(still!) yet remains outside of the DOD. This is largely due to the Coast
Guard's role in enforcement of laws and treaties. We have a long - and
valuable - tradition in this country of not having the Defense Department
involved in enforcing civilian laws. Since the USCG enforces fishing laws,
environmental protection laws, (water) traffic laws and numerous other laws
and regulations, it is best they remain outside of DOD.
The Coast Guard also provides technical assistance and training to the
Navies of many countries around the world. Except for the four or five
largest countries, most nation's navies are similar in mission and size to
the Coast Guard. This assistance is often better received when it does not
come from a "military" force.
How big is the Coast Guard? If you took every man and woman on Active Duty
in the USCG and you put them in the Rose Bowl, you could do it again - twice
(35,000 active duty, 8,000 Reservists).
In my earlier posting about the MCPO of the USCG arranging for E-3 on
enlistment of Eagle Scouts, I neglected to point out that the Coast Guard
has long awarded E-3 to Sea Scouts who earn the Quartermaster Award. (And
E-3 also goes to Girl Scouts who earn the Gold Award.)
I feel like Mike Walton on a roll. (Hee hee!) You asked the question and I
could just keep going and going and going . . . =:~)
Thanks for listening.
_____________
Thomas Heavey, Sr. ___ | |
heavey@nwrain.com \ \ / |
YN1-USCGR \ \/ * Tacoma, WA |
Scoutmaster Troop 299 \__ |
www.nwrain.net/~troop 299 |_______________|
WE-1-603-92 (I used to be an owl ...)
"Anyone can be great
because anyone can serve." --MLKjr
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:48:15 -0700
Reply-To: Conrad Shultz <shultz@PROAXIS.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Conrad Shultz <shultz@PROAXIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991014164823.00b3e690@subasic.sciatl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello,
My name is Conrad Shultz and I am about 15 years old, a member of Oregon
Trail Council, a Life scout, and a Vice-Chief of Tsisqan Lodge #253, Order
of the Arrow.
I agree more with this description of the 'problem' than any other I have
seen so far. I am, to say the least, a Scouting fanatic (especially OA).
I am typing this with the official uniform shirt on. Though I don't wear
it to school, simply because I feel its place is in officially sanctioned
BSA activities, I proudly wear T-shirts with Boy Scout themes on them to
school. Examples: Camp Staff, Cub Resident Camp Staff, OA shirts, etc.
When wearing these shirts, or when people ask me what my hobbies are and I
reply Boy Scouts, occasionally I will get the question, "Why do you do that
stupid thing?"
I ask, "Why not?" I explain to them why I enjoy being a Boy Scout, and the
fun involved. I will then ask them why they do not agree with my opinons,
and as expressed in the post below, the answer usually is "I hated Cubbing."
Or "I hated my troop."
I know that there are dysfunctional/defective troops and packs. This is
unfortunate, as the BSA loses large numbers of youth as a result. I think
the ultimate obstacle to eliminating the reputation of "nerdy" or "mamas's
boy" is to change programming in some units. I know that when I was in Cub
Scouts those years ago, I hated about half of the program, specifically the
activities designed for kids half the age of the target audience.
Sometimes I think the Cubmasters and Den Leaders need to poll the Cubs as
to what THEY want to do, not what the Den Leader's Handbook dictates. This
would help in retention, as I think a youth assisted (but maybe not run)
program, even with nine or ten year olds, is infinitely more successful
overall than a totally adult run program.
One more thing before I stop babbling. Get Cubs camping. From what I have
seen, some Cubs don't camp out for real until 10 or 11, which I personally
find ridiculous. Even then, they are often barred from participating in
enjoyable activities, such as fire building and cooking (the parents worry
that little Timmy will burn himself or poke his eye out; my experience as a
Den Chief: parents, your kids are more capable and competent than you
think, give them a chance). DO NOT, under any circumstances, however, let
your kids do these tasks unsupervised. I do not mean to oppose parental
authority or undermine safety. Cub Scouts are competent with many tasks,
but lack skills that can only be gained through experience (many skills I
don't have yet; I usually do something wrong every camping trip-but hey,
practice makes perfect). I hope, that as parents, you know this already,
and don't have to learn it from a Boy Scout. :-)
I hope that my experience as a youth member may enlighten some of you
lifelong scouters, and open windows into realms you may not have thought
about. I am not trying to go against any regulations or opinions of the
BSA, so please don't flame me on that. If you want to get angry at me, do
it off the list. My email is shultz@proaxis.com
Yours in Scouting,
Conrad Shultz
Life Scout, Troop 163
Corvallis, Oregon, Oregon Trail Council
Membership Vice-Chief, Tsisqan Lodge #253
At 04:53 PM 10/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Another possible explanation for the "uncool" label on US Scouting
>may be that many of the pre-teens and early teens who pick on
>Boy Scouts remember their days as Cub Scouts, and assume
>that Boy Scouts are still doing the same kinds of activities.
>
>Cub Scouting has huge numbers, but the percentage who go on
>to Boy Scouts is quite low. ... that leaves a lot of former Cub Scouts
>among the peers of our Scouts who are making invalid assumptions
>about Boy Scouts and the kinds of activities they do....
>
>whaddya think?
>
>YiS,
>
>Jeff L. Glaze, webmaster
>Button Gwinnett District Web Site
>Atlanta Area Council, BSA
>http://www.bsa.net/ga/aac/ned/
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:10:54 -0500
Reply-To: "David M. Legler" <legler@WWW.COAPS.FSU.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "David M. Legler" <legler@WWW.COAPS.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hello :-) [being a Cubmaster]
In-Reply-To: <199910150513.BAA62038@www.coaps.fsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dear Lee, I can't speak to stepping into an uncertain situation, but I suggest
sitting down with the current Committee Chair (you might talk to some of the
Den Leaders too) and discuss the status of the Pack (you probably know much
already from attending Pack functions) and your anticipated role as Cubmaster.
Tell them of your plan to become trained and follow the Cub program. Solicit
the support of all the Pack leaders.
If you have questions about being a Cubmaster, ask the District Executive for
the name of a nearby Cubmaster who can talk to you - go to one of their Pack
meetings.
I found being Cubmaster to be the best job of all Cub leader positions (and I
have served almost every Pack position). Where else can one be an adult, act
like a clown, get other adults to join your circus act, and reward those who
have worked hard? No doubt there will be difficult times (which occur naturally
whenever adults are involved) and your share of stress, but the rewards of
seeing your Cubs with smiles and of witnessing the Pack grow to become a
community of Scouts in every sense of the word easily outweighs the negatives.
--------
David M. Legler
District Committee - Training (Ponce de Leon)
Asst. Scoutmaster-Troop 16, Tiger Dad-Pack 6, Cubmaster on Sabbatical
Suwannee River Area Council, Tallahassee, FL
Home: 850 893-8226 Work: 850 644-3797 Email: legler@coaps.fsu.edu
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:57:34 -0400
> From: Lee Cornell <lcornell@ARCHES.UGA.EDU>
> Subject: Hello :)
> ......
> I have been asked by our District Executive if I would step up and take the
> position of Cubmaster (a decision I am still considering). In the past week
> I have found a vast amount of information on the web to answer just about
> every question I have had regarding being a cubmaster, but friends and
> family are warning me against it. Their reasons include giving up a lot of
> my free time, increased stress (on me and the family), and a bunch of
> undefined headaches that come with the job. Thus far I haven't been able to
> talk to the past Cubmaster, nor can I find anyone on the pack committee with
> whom I can discuss the history of the pack. .........
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:16:38 -0400
Reply-To: Doug Roach <djroach@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Doug Roach <djroach@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Teenagers and Uniforms
X-To: John Nelson <vwpog@HOTMAIL.COM>
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John Nelson wrote:
>
> You know the funny thing about this. When the boys are cubs... they are
> just dying to wear their uniform to school, to church, etc. They think it's
> COOL! But at a point, they change and they no longer think it;s cool.
>If we only could keep their minds in that COOL stage.
>
Yeah, right. And if we could only keep their butts in one pair of pants
for more than a year....
YiS,
Doug Roach
SA & Eagle dad, Troop 10 - Miami -
P.S. Can anybody here tell me why I started shrinking as soon as I
became a Scout leader?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: Marc Godbout <godbout@LANCAST.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Marc Godbout <godbout@LANCAST.COM>
Subject: Scouting commercial idea
In-Reply-To: <199908311541.IAA25866@aztec2.asu.edu>
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I kind of brought up an idea for a Scouting commercial yesterday and
then my mind wandered (usually a dangerous thing :>) and fantasized that
somehow National would actually pick up on the idea. We could start a
letter-writing campaign and get National to move on this. Then I
remembered how well the BDU suggestions went over (haven't seen any
BDU's in the Scout store, have we?) and had some reality thoughts this
morning. A good night's sleep and time in the gym usually does that for
me.
This list is, what, 800 - 1000 members strong? Is there anyone on the
list who is, or knows, someone with real professional-quality video
editing/producing skills and would volunteer his or her time?
If so, I would suggest that we find some volunteer actors (gee, how
about maybe some real-life scouts on real-life activities???) and start
filming the fun things we do. Would it be possible to get some
"helmet-cams" and film from a boy's eye view in addition to some
distance shots? We don't need any fancy soundtracks. I think the
natural sounds of the scouts climbing a rock, the roar of the rapids,
etc. would sink home the fact that this is real-life. Point-of-view
works well for shows like "Anyplace Wild", fishing shows, and even MTV's
"Reel Life".
Then we spread this production-quality video around to the volunteer
members and see if we can get local stations to show it. Maybe get our
Councils to support this?
So is this possible, or should I go back to the gym and sweat the idea
out of my head? Are we enough of a community that we can work together
on this, instead of the usual moaning about things we have no control
over? Complaining around the campfire won't get any changes made, and
maybe that's all we really want to do. But if we really want to make a
difference, then it's time to walk the walk. I don't know anyone
personally who could do the post-filming work, but I'm going to call our
local cable station, high school, and maybe the TV station to see if I
can get any leads. I don't know how far I can take this by myself, but
I think I'm about to find out.
YiS,
Marc Godbout
SMA - Venture, Troop 98
Derry, NH
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:48:50 -0000
Reply-To: Anthony Mako <ajmako@NLS.NET>
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From: Anthony Mako <ajmako@NLS.NET>
Subject: Re: Coast Guard cutters
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<Ralph V. Balfoort wrote>
Can't remember the exact length (Is it 65 feet?), but ALL Coast Guard ships
above that point are called cutters, even ice breakers. It goes back to
when the they used "revenue cutters" to enforce the trade laws on the U.S.
coast.
And, at least in peace time, I seem to remember that the Coast Guard is not
part of the Department of Defense; used to be Dept of Commerce, but it might
be Dept. of Transportation now. Anyone know for sure?
</Ralph>
During time of war the United States Coast Guard can be "borrowed" by the
DoD. During the Gulf War, Coast Guard units provided valuable service in
port security and coastal defence (things they are better at than the USN).
During times of peace, the United States Coast Guard falls under the
direction of the Department of Transportation.
YIS
A. J. Mako, ajmako@nls.net , Scoutmaster Troop 381
Home of the Unofficial Win95 Boy Scout Desktop Theme,
http://members.aol.com/Scouts381/
Old Portage District, Great Trail Council, BSA
"I used to be an Eagle (C-7-97), but I'll always be an Eagle (1981)"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:07:06 -0500
Reply-To: Michelle Johnson <mdjohnso@PRESSENTER.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Michelle Johnson <mdjohnso@PRESSENTER.COM>
Subject: Re: Scouting commercial idea
In-Reply-To: <001a01bf170b$3bd38420$704184c0@lancast.com>
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At 08:45 AM 10/15/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>
>If so, I would suggest that we find some volunteer actors (gee, how
>about maybe some real-life scouts on real-life activities???) and start
>filming the fun things we do. Would it be possible to get some
>"helmet-cams" and film from a boy's eye view in addition to some
>distance shots? We don't need any fancy soundtracks. I think the
>natural sounds of the scouts climbing a rock, the roar of the rapids,
>etc. would sink home the fact that this is real-life. Point-of-view
>works well for shows like "Anyplace Wild", fishing shows, and even MTV's
>"Reel Life".
I guess I would kind of copy it after the old Army commercial....
"We do more before 8am than most people do all day....."
Adventurous music playing while showing clips of scouts doing things like
hiking, biking, climbing, white water rapids etc.
another thing National might consider rather than putting it on network TV
would be to advertise on Channel One.
Channel One is a relatively new program offered to middle school and high
schools. They get a 15 minute type news production on television every
morning complete with commercials targeted toward that age group. Its my
understanding that Channel One is viewed by thousands of schools every day.
(How many kids does that add up to?)
Our Council office had an excellent video presentation for FOS last year
that would make a very good commercial as well.
Just a thought......
Michelle Johnson
River Falls, WI
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:29:00 -0500
Reply-To: Wendell Brown <wbrown@ARKIE.NET>
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From: Wendell Brown <wbrown@ARKIE.NET>
Subject: Re: Program helps
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:03:54 EDT, John Nelson wrote:
>Can someone tell me where the Program Helps book is in the BSA catalog? I
>can't seem to find a product number anywhere so I can order one.
I don't have my Program Helps on my desk but I do have my Roundtable
Planning Guide and it lists the Program Helps on its Literature list
with the number: 34304A
Hope this helps!
Wendell Brown
Scouting The Net -- http://www.arkie.net/~scouting
A Mini-Yahoo for the scouting community.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:26:46 -0500
Reply-To: Norman Huber <nihuber@ICE.NET>
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From: Norman Huber <nihuber@ICE.NET>
Subject: Introduction
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I was looking for some information on merit badge requirements on the
U.S. Scouting Service Home page and found a reference to the Scouts-L.
Signed up out of curiosity. The first posting I received was on
leadership games. This was timely since I was to lead a discussion a few
hours later at Roundtable on the subject. I showed the scouters at my
discussion group the information and had one who described himself as
"Internet Impaired" copying the address and planning to visit the site.
I am Impressed.
I am a Scoutmaster in W.D. Boyce Council - Home of the Founder, and a
member of the Roundtable staff. I've been a scouter since I walked in to
a roundup meeting 28 years ago to register my son as a cub scout. The
ultimatum was to take a leadership position or there would be no Pack.
For some reason I liked it and I'm still there. I've been a scouter in
National Capital Area Council, the Panama Canal Zone, New Orleans Area
Council and now here in central Illinois. This spring I managed to spend
the night at Gilwell and so now I can really say "I've been back to
Gilwell."
Yours in Scouting-
--
Norm - N9ZKS
Bicyclist, Motorcyclist, Ham , Scouter
Year2000 Compliant
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:52:18 -0400
Reply-To: "David E. Lupo" <del@ATDESK.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "David E. Lupo" <del@ATDESK.COM>
Subject: Scout Shop service (Was: ScoutBasics.com and Online uniforms.)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19991013232928.094f500a@SCOUTER.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:23 PM 10/14/99 CDT, (MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
wrote:
>Additionally, as I wrote earlier, the BSA would prefer that Scouters and
>parents come into local Council service centers and their trademarked
"Scout
>Shops" in an effort to increase sales and to offer a high degree of
service
>to parents and Scouters. "That's why we hire Supply Division employees to
>work in our Scout Shops!"
Have you (any of you on the list, not just Mike) experienced "a high
degree of service" at your council Scout Shop? We don't here. Until
recently, the Scout Shop was open only 8:30-5:00 Monday through Friday.
I think it was last year that they finally agreed to stay open until
8:00 PM on Thursdays (and close at 1:00 on Fridays). Saturday hours
seem out of the question. One would think that an organization that
depends on volunteers would make some effort to accommodate its
schedule to the times volunteers might actually be able to get to
the store.
Of course, it would also help if there were something to purchase when
one *does* get there. Our store seems chronically unable to keep
stock on hand, both literature and advancement items. Why the Council
would set a goal of recruiting X new Cub Scouts at school nights and
not realize that packs are going to need X Bobcat badges a month or
so later, I don't know. The same for belt loops: If 200 boys earn
the BB belt loop at day camp, I think I'd stock up on BB belt loops
if I were running the store. We routinely find the store out of
Summertime pins in September, Bobcat badges in October, Arrow of Light
pins in February. The district training team had to tell Cub Scout
Basic Leader Training participants, "You need the Cub Scout Leader Book.
But don't come to the Scout Shop for it, because they're sold out."
Is this unusual? People have talked with the store staff, the Council
Exec, and everyone else we can think of, and nothing much changes.
------
David Lupo <del@atdesk.com>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:03:13 +0000
Reply-To: "jay.thal" <jay.thal@TCS.WAP.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "jay.thal" <jay.thal@TCS.WAP.ORG>
Organization: Washington Apple Pi, Ltd. computer user group in Washington, DC
Subject: Who Were Those Masked Programmers?
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I thought I'd look up something useful on BSA's Y2K website last night.
So, I had it search on the word: "training", hoping to get the Philmont
Training Center's Year 2000 schedule. <http://www.bsa.scouting.org>
Well, the 2000 schedule wasn't there. Neither was the 1999 schedule.
But, the 1998 schedule was there!
Will it be deja vu all over again? ;-)
An interesting contrast on publishing training opportunities (and other
matters) can be seen at: <http://www.girlscouts.org> Is there a gender
gap?
YiWWSWd,
Jay
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:02:33 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
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From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Scouting commercial idea
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Last January I was lucky enough to attend the World Jamboree in Chile. When
it finished up I spent 2 weeks traveling around the country as I figured I
might not get back down there for a while. Almost every hotel had a TV and
usually in the evening I would check International CNN for news updates. I
noticed 2 commercials running for scouting. Both were generic enough so as
they could have been in most countries, although they had a fair mix of
teenage boys and girls interacting. They were good ads showing a
disillusioned teenager suddenly meeting up and joining a group of smiling
teens, with a voice-over about how much fun scouting is.
My point is, it would seem like a good time in this country for some BSA
sponsored commercials regarding the benefits of the program. I have been
seeing a lot of adds recently for Boys/Girls Clubs of America and they are
quite good. I occasionally see a Boy or Cub in an add for a loan company or
a tutoring program but no direct ads for BSA.
Perhaps BlackEagle Mike can share any thing he knows on National's feeling on
this subject.
YOF
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:08:46 -0400
Reply-To: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
Subject: Re: Scout Shop service (Was: ScoutBasics.com and Online uniforms.)
X-To: "David E. Lupo" <del@ATDESK.COM>
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"David E. Lupo" wrote:
>
> Have you (any of you on the list, not just Mike) experienced "a high
> degree of service" at your council Scout Shop?
Yes, we have evening and Saturday service and there are 2
Scout Shop locations. This only happened because, about six
or seven years ago, Council started to look at the Scout
Shop as a "profit center" rather than as a service.
It sounds like no one on your Executive Board has a retail
background.
--
Rich Locke
Williamsburg,VA
mailto:rfl@offpro.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:11:56 -0400
Reply-To: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
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From: Rich <rfl@OFFPRO.NET>
Subject: Re: Who Were Those Masked Programmers?
X-To: "jay.thal" <jay.thal@TCS.WAP.ORG>
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"jay.thal" wrote:
>
><snip><
>
> Well, the 2000 schedule wasn't there. Neither was the 1999 schedule.
> But, the 1998 schedule was there!
>
> Will it be deja vu all over again? ;-)
>
>
No, but the 1998 schedule has only recently been
declassified and was posted under a FOIA request...........
--
..tongue implanted in cheek..
Rich Locke
Williamsburg,VA
mailto:rfl@offpro.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:06:45 -0600
Reply-To: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
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From: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
Subject: Need GREAT ideas for six month planning tonight
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Hi All
The PLC is doing six month planning tonight and I am looking for a few new ideas
to throw in their mix. In the past Scouts_L has given some unique fun themes and
ideas for Scouting Skills, Troop meetings and campouts. So think back to a
couple of your more interesting and fun programs and send them to me and I will
give them to the Scouts. Anything really, Backpacking, biking, canoeing,
lock-ins, what was fun in your Troop. We live in central Oklahoma, so if you
have some interesting places to camp or visit with in a few hours drive, send
those also.
I will pass on a couple of ours just to start things off.
Our Scouts planned what they call a Triathlon campout. The set up 15 stations of
Scout skills mixed evenly between hiking five miles, canoeing around a small
lake twice and biking for about seven miles. The original plan was to have the
Scouts carry and move their camping gear with them, but that didn't work out
well. They did carry their lunch with them so eat on the trail. It was a great
campout. If we do anything over again, it will be make the course longer. They
finished all that in about three hours.
The other campout our guys had fun with is a night camporee. We did it once with
just our Troop under the Star Trek theme then last year we invited three other
Troops under the James Bond theme. We had seven inches of rain during that one.
If interested, do a search of Night Camporees in the archives on page
http://archives.scouter.com/Scouts-L/default.asp
We learned a lot from those programs and our guys are turning into great
planners. Night camporees are fun just because the change in setting at night.
Our Troop has a reputation of not being afraid of trying NEW and FUN ideas. I
want to keep that reputation. Looking forward to your ideas and experience.
Thanks for all your help. Have a great weekend,
Barry Runnels
Troop 386
Edmond OK
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:18:13 -0600
Reply-To: Jan Mussler <mussler@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU>
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From: Jan Mussler <mussler@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Value of Training
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Kelly brought up a good point about the fraternity of scouting with other
groups. This has been brought up as a goal for our Troop by the
Scoutmaster for the coming year. Our Troop doesn't, however, do it's own
thing as we (almost exclusively it seems for a period of time when
leadership was short) attend District and Council events. To play devil's
advocate, I worry that our Troop does the "events with an agenda" too
much, leaving us little time for "doing our own thing". I can see how it
could happen. If you only have 3 registered leaders willing/able to
attend campouts and activities, you'd be likely to pick events with little
or no prep involved. But we now have a Troop who can't plan a program or
their own activities.
The original point of the post had to do with the value of meeting other
resources/people at training. I am a strong advocate of these training
events that bring others together. HOWEVER, I still need an alternative
method for training my leaders if we are to be a quality unit. If I can't
get my people to training, then I need to get the training to them.
Bottomline.
Has anyone else from a rural unit who lives some distance from training
solved this problem. We are a small unit as well. Thanks.
YIS,
Jan Mussler, Webelos Den Leader, Pack 170
Troop Committee Chair, Troop 170
Arapahoe District, Longs Peak Council
Nederland, CO
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:24:55 -0400
Reply-To: Allen Maddox <amaddox@LUTRON.COM>
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From: Allen Maddox <amaddox@LUTRON.COM>
Subject: Re: Patch Awarding for Cub-e-los camp or what about the boy?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Mike brings up and interesting point. I'd like to take it one step further.
When I am checking who is going on a trip or activity, and who is not, I
note the lack of attendance by one of three categories.
1 - Schedule conflict. Family, school, sports and others. There isn't much
you can do about this.
2 - Money, or the lack of. This may not be so obvious. Sometimes a
parents was just laid off and they have to watch their budget. This is
easy. Our Charter Organization gives us a camping scholarship to use at
our discretion.
3 - They don't feel like it. This is the tough one. Do they not like the
program? Do they get picked on by other Scouts, or non-Scout peers?
Do they not feel welcome? Do their parents not feel welcome, and rub
off the feeling to their children? Are they embarrassed because they
can't bait a hook or take off their shirt to go swimming? Does my breath
smell so bad they can't stand to be around me? This is the category that
needs the most attention. This is where the trail to citizenship, character,
and fitness begins.
YiS (Yours in Scouting)
Allen Maddox
SM T9
Honey Brook, PA
Horseshoe Trail District, Chester County Council
A Wild and Crazy Fox.... and working my ticket
..........The journey is the destination of adventure...........
<snip>
May I play devil's advocate here for a minute before you "correct" this
father or his son?
Why did he leave early? We've all seen those parents and sons that just
can't pack up and leave early enough on Sunday morning or those that
leave
summer camp after the closing campfire and don't even wait until the last
day. Why are they so eager to leave? Did he have a good reason to
leave
early or did he just not feel like he was fitting in and is truly welcome or
is he uncomfortable in Scouting surroundings?
<end snip>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:28:50 +0000
Reply-To: "jay.thal" <jay.thal@TCS.WAP.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "jay.thal" <jay.thal@TCS.WAP.ORG>
Organization: Washington Apple Pi, Ltd. computer user group in Washington, DC
Subject: On-Line Scouting Catalog
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Just to add my comments to the recent thread -- the way an on-line
Scouting Catalog SHOULD look:
<http://www.girlscouts.org/merchandise>
(and they give attribution to the photographer)
Shouldn't BSA "learn" from its "competition". (And I have no girls)
YiWWSWd,
Jay
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:27:51 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
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From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Scout Shop service (Was: ScoutBasics.com and Online uniforms.)
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I'd have to agree. In Houston we have a main scout shop and 2 or 3 satelites
in the most populated suburbs, yet our council covers 16 counties. Our
staff is great, but the shops are small and backorders do occur.
Four years ago our Council President, a corporate exec, sent out an
accountability survey to all volunteers. He felt as a businessman he wanted
to get the pulse of the volunteers. One of the biggest complaints was
council service center hours (8:30-4:00) and our Scout shop hours and
availability of items. Well, nothing has changed.
In my personal involvement with BSA I see 2 main technology problems that
need to get addressed:
1. Make it easier for volunteers and scout parents to purchase
non-restricted supplies. BSA needs to know Web shopping is here to stay. I
haven't been to a mall in years, I buy 90% of my clothes and presents over
the internet.
2. Get a handle on Scoutnet 2000. I still haven't gotten the training report
I was seeking and wrote about here 3 weeks ago. I can't even get a District
Roster. My District Recharter is due in December but can't be printed! I
think I'm supposed to use the "Force" to complete it. Most of us are in
businesses that use computers and in the business world, slow technology is
no technology.
YOF
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:29:14 -0500
Reply-To: jal@SGI.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Jim Lindberg <jal@SGI.COM>
Subject: University of Scouting offered
X-To: Cub-Scout-Talk@onelist.com
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filename="university"
Here is information on the 1999 Chippewa Valley Council's
University of Scouting. It will be held at the Vo-Tech School in
Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
For more information, contact the Chippewa Valley Co
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:44:51 EDT
Reply-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Subject: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
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I am forwarding part of a message I received from a friend for those of you
trying to deal with council computer issues and Scoutnet 2000. I have been
told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL Server, but what do I
know, I work on a Mac.
>BSA has met with Oracle to resolve this problem but with no response. The
server does not keep the data separate by councils. Therefore, it serches
the entire data base for every entry of names.<
Yours truly in a techno fog
Chris in Houston
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:11:47 -0400
Reply-To: Bob Myers <focus@FUSE.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Bob Myers <focus@FUSE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chigger bites
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About four years ago we had a long thread about chiggers. Here is what I
remember:
1. Chiggers are almost invisible critters related to fleas.
2. They are extremely fragile and are killed with the first scratching.
3. They DO NOT burrow into the skin. There is nothing there to "kill" with
deodorant or fingernail polish or whatever.
4. They DO bite, and similar to a spider, they inject a digestive juice that
usually outlives them.
5. The bites are usually around the ankles or waist bands, etc. - places
where clothing is in contact with the skin.
6. Prevention is tough - only powdered sulfur was known to work.
7. Chigarid is a commercial remedy specifically designed to treat chigger
bites. It is a mix of anti-itch medications and a type of surgical glue.
This keeps the medication exactly where it is needed for several days.
I tried Chigarid and it worked. We also tried the powdered sulfur, shaking
it into the socks around the ankles, etc. and it also seemed to work, but I
couldn't be totally sure. We went back to a field where nearly the entire
troop was bitten and no one was bitten this time, but it was a little
earlier in the season. Around here, both the Chigarid and the sulfur are
found behind the pharmacist's counter.
YiS,
Bob Myers
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:00:41 +0100
Reply-To: Ian N Ford <addvent@BTINTERNET.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Ian N Ford <addvent@BTINTERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: uniform wearing policy
X-To: bob prentice <bobp@ROBSCI.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
What is wrong with wearing uniform to travel, then change into activity gear
on arrival ?
Either that or travel in a troop sweatshirt if you have one. My practice
has always been to travel in uniform, put up a dining fly to protect the kit
from the rain, then a store tent. The Scouts change in the store tent, then
load in the supplies. If you are lightweight camping the Scouts can put up
their tents then change before doing dirty work.
The alternative if the weather is OK is to wear shorts and tee-shirt under
the uniform.
If the weather is bad, then presumably everyone will have raingear and
overtrousers
so the uniform will be covered in any case. <g>
YiS
Ian Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: bob prentice <bobp@ROBSCI.COM>
To: <SCOUTS-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU>
Sent: 30 September 1999 19:23
Subject: Re: uniform wearing policy
> 09/30/99 Joel wrote:
>
> My Assistant Scoutmaster prefers to not wear his uniform to and from
camping
> trips because he says he has ruined his uniform before during the set up
and
> take down of camp. Our policy has always been wear the uniform to and
from
> all Scout activities. The double standard does not work here. Should I
> except camping trips? Only non Council events? Or stick to our policy and
> risk alienating the only assistant that I have right now. Remember, I
just
> took over this Troop and am rebuilding it from the ground floor. What is
your
> policy? How do you think I should proceed? Thanks, Joel Marc Korczynski,
New
> Scoutmaster of Troop 28 Red Lion, PA,
>
> Joel-
>
> At the risk of sounding like the "uniform police", you should sit down
with
> your ASM and explain the idea of setting the example for the boys. By
itself
> it does not seem to be a large issue, unless you look at what we are
trying to
> teach the boys. You might explain to your assistant, that if he does not
wear
> the uniform in all cases where you expect the boys to, eventually they are
going
> to feel that if Mr. So and So doesn't have to, why should I?
>
> Now is the best time to set policy. Being a new scoutmaster, you can
> mention that
> in order to get off on the best possible foot, all policies are to be
enforced.
>
> If your assistant feels it is too much of a chore to wear the uniform, you
> might want
> to look around for other possible assistants who will support you in what
> you are trying
> to teach your scouts.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bob Prentice
> ASM Troop 263
> Pacific Skyline Council
> (I still am a Buffalo...WE3-55-99)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:27:11 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: Re: activity segments
X-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor <brtaylor@TELEBYTE.NET>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bob Taylor asked:
>our council offers about 30 activity segments for the uniform. can/should
>adults wear these segments on their uniforms?
I'm surprised that Shel or someone else from TAC or FEC (Transatlantic
Council; Far East Council...both overseas Councils offer segmented patches
in the place of (originally) or in addition to (recently) regular activity
and event patches.) didn't answer this one already!
The answer is, Bob, "whatever your Council allows" since those patches are
local Council program patches produced in part to support national programming.
In most cases, you and other adults in your Council can indeed earn and wear
the appropriate segments to go around the central patch of your Council.
There's only one caution, one in which TAC Scouters and Scouts are well
aware of although we don't always follow it.
The current BSA uniforming policies allow for two "rings" to fit on the
right uniform pocket of the average field uniform. Any more than than is
"technically wrong" although I've seen as many as four partial and three
complete "rings" (a ring is like rings found when cutting a tree: toward the
center, the ring is small and expand as you leave the center) on a youth
field uniform.
Commissioners and others concerned about good uniforming should be cautious
about allowing Scouts and Scouters to wear no more than two "rings" if the
center patch is three inches in diameter; no more than one "ring" if the
center patch is four inches in diameter. Any more than that, and the
patches do fall outside the dimensions of the pocket.
I would recommend instead of wearing the patches on the uniform shirt, to
wear them instead on the backside of a jacket or vest...it looks a bit more
colorful, and there's not an restriction on how many "rings" one can wear
around the center patch there. During one of my frequent tours in Europe,
that's exactly what I did: I wore the TAC central patch with the segments
that I've earned on that tour; and on my back, I wore all of the other
segments previously earned (going back to my childhood; I'm still missing
like three or four due to moves from Germany back to the States). When I
finished the short tour, I transferred the patches from the shirt to join
their siblings on the backside of the jacket.
Hope this helps out, Bob....and sorry for the late response to your question!!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:31:15 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: 100 Million Merit Badges...
X-To: Embers@dynapolis.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
As some of you are aware, in addition to posting and responding to questions
and issues here on Scouts-L (my home!), I also respond to postings on other
forums and as part of the team of the US Scouting Service Project (USSSP)
since the middle of this summer.
Frequently, some of the questions and issues asked to me privately or within
those other forums are questions of a broader nature. I bring them over
here WITHOUT the name or Council affiation of the person asking (and with as
much information which would tend to ID the person or the Council removed.
And ALWAYS with the permission of the person whom posted me privately with
the question!)
I want to emphasize two aspects of Scouts-L which has made it extremely
popular over the past ten years as well as to lend to this list a great deal
of legitamacy over the other lists which were started and ended up on the
wayside.
First, that EVERYONE here has a voice. We may not *like the words coming
from that voice* and some of what that voice states may "hit home hard."
But from our earlier days, when we would spend entire DAYS discussing and
rehashing and looking at the SAME issue from all kinds of angles and
directions and points of view....to today, when we spend about 10 days give
or take a few days...we respected the right of EACH PARTICIPANT to post
whatever they felt was important to other youth leaders...and to seek the
advice, shoulders, and priase or scorn (we try not to provide a lot of
that!) of other Scouters. That's a constant.
Second, that this is NOT a forum to "get back" at a chartered partner
organization, a fellow Scouter, a youth member, and certaintly not a
professional. Scouts-L has NEVER BEEN a "tattletell" forum. When a Scouter
brings up a situation for some advice, even though fellow Scouters from that
person's unit, District, Council or Region may be members here....he or she
is asking because THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT ELSE COULD OR CAN BE DONE to solve,
fix, or repair the situation.
And there's a lot of other Scouters here that are here to help solve, fix,
or repair those situations by offering their ADVICE and INFORMATION in order
for that person to make a decision -- good, bad or otherwise. It's not
"Scouts-L" that's making the decision....it's the individual Scouter that's
having to make that decision based we all hope on what we offer as advice or
information or resources to aid in that decision.
The few professionals and senior volunteers on this list all are here
because they want to learn from all of us; and when appropriate, to share
what they know and experienced to help us all understand why it is the way
it is. Believe me when I say that many of them do take back what they are
learning here to make their roles in Scouting or other youth programs better
and more rewarding for ALL of us. It's not a matter of "taking notes for
future action" around here...we're too busy "taking notes to get things done
NOW."
So....
Please don't use Scouts-L as a "get even" stick. Please don't refrain from
posting to Scouts-L just because "well, there's people here from my unit,
and they don't like me posting to the list about our problems." Unless they
are paying for your time, for your Internet access....there's very little
that they can do or say about it. That's your right as an American (or
citizen of one of the other nations whom contribute to this forum.) to speak
your mind, to express your thought, to tell your story.
If there is an issue that you want to discuss, but you don't want it "coming
from your unit or District or Council", post the message to our Listowner
and explain the situation to him. Or post it privately to me or other
members whom have been around here ("Dr. Steve" Myers, Don Izard, Kathy
Cervany-Heldenfinger, Paul Wolf, Bruce Coburn, "Professor Beaver" Mike
Bowman, Gary Hendra, Calvin Gray, Ben Parker, Jim Peterson, Alan Houser,
and Jim Sleezer) a while longer.
I have met only a few of these individuals, and I won't even pretend to
speak for any of them -- they have voices and many of them have used them
many times here to express their points of view or feelings or thoughts or
ideas. But I do know if you post to them with a question, a issue, or just
to vent....it will stay with them and won't reach the list at large unless
YOU give them permission to do so and many of them will "twist the locations
and names around enough" to resolve any feelings of "you're picking on us."
This is too valuable a resource to have people sitting out there wanting to
ask a question but fearful that "It'll get back to me" or my unit or
District and "cause waves." Hate to say this, but that's how change occurs,
and change is natural...just like the seasons. We teach our youth
this....we need to take a bit of that advice.
----------------------
Now; to the topic of this posting:
Someone asked me privately:
> According to the published merit badge achievement stats the
> 100 millionth merit badge will be earned within the first few
> months of 2000. Are there any publicity plans for this?
Yes, there is. A packet of information will be released to all local
Councils next month to support the BSA's 90th Anniversary activities, which
starts in November and go onward through March of next year. During that
period of time, it is thought that the 100 millionth merit badge will be
earned and the Scout and his Scoutmaster will be invited to take part in the
Report to the Nation ceremony and program at the White House and in the
rotunda on Capitol Hill.
There are other parts of this massive celebration also in the works, to
include a special patch and some special program covers and placemats for
Blue and Gold banquets and other events. So if your Council hasn't been
advised yet, now is the time to start thinking about how your unit and
Council will be celebrating the BSA's 90th birthday!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:06:49 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@SCOUTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Scouter Uniforms on-line?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Todd correctly stated:
>At the Annual Meeting, the BSA Webmaster presented the new Council Web Site
>Policies & Guidelines. Related to this, all council are to stop selling
>Supply Division stuff on-line. If a council gets their site inline with
>all the Policies & Guidelines, they will be linked to from the National
>site via the "Council Locator" section. Best guess of when of when
>National will be selling on the web...after ScoutNet 2000 is working up to
>speend in all councils (2-3 years???? {that's a whole other topic}).
Today, I received the 43rd and 44th question related to this topic. So,
being the
(nosy) curious person I am, I sought out some answers to some questions that
people have been asking me about purchasing uniforms online.
I've forwarded the gist of what I found out to Mike Bowman, who's going to
place it on the US Scouting Service Project's website soon (because over
there, we've experienced a "upswing" in the number of questions asked about
that same topic).
I'll be posting a copy to my Leaders' Online(tm) site this weekend.
-----------------------------------from website page
---------------------------------------
Over the last four weeks, the US Scouting Service Project as well as several
Internet Scouters have been receiving numerous numbers of requests asking
for assistance with or a URL (Uniform Resource Locator, the
"http://something.com") address to a site which will allow ordering BSA
uniforms and other items via the Internet.
To complicate matters further, someone posted what looked like the front-end
of a BSA catalog site onto the World Wide Web...which required logging into
that site using a password and which did not have any content on the site.
While no malice was intended -- the individuals simply wanted to assist
Scouters with their uniform purchases -- the GeoCities site proved to be too
difficult to handle and the individuals merely gave up on further work past
the front-end page and authentication.
The site was NOT placed, authorized, or supported by the BSA's Supply
Division nor by any local BSA Council.
After some researching into this possibility with the BSA as well as with
the Internet Service Provider of the questionable site, here's what we can
inform you about how to place orders for uniforms, insignia, and accessories
(like Pinewood Derby kits, Blue and Gold Banquet placemats and program
covers and other items):
-------
First, the "catalog website" in question has been taken down and IS NO LONGER
AVAILABLE. The site was removed by its owners, who had no connection with
the BSA or a local Council of the BSA.
If you receive a posting informing you of the GeoCities site, please ignore
it. If you do access the site, you will see a message informing you that the
site is no longer available. For that reason, we are not listing the site here.
-------
Second, the BSA Supply Division is the ONLY authorized distributor of
official BSA merchandise, uniforms, insignia and accessories for Cub Scouts,
Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts, Venturers and their adult leaders and
professional members. The BSA's Supply Division grants "distributorships" on
a national and local basis based on the potential amount of sales and the
availability of it's outlets to the greatest segments of Scouts/Scouters.
The BSA does make available its uniforms, basic books, and basic insignia
through J.C. Penney's (http://www.jcpenney.com). You can go to their website
and order those items through them with the same confidence you would have
if you purchase other items from Penney's.
They receive stock from the BSA weekly and will ship to APO addresses in the
Americas, Europe and the Pacific. The cost of those items are slightly
higher than retail to account for the extra steps of making them available
to you. J.C. Penneys has a special Scout Catalog which can be obtained for
free at any Penney's store or by calling them tollfree at 1-800-222-6161 and
requesting one be sent to your home or office. To use their online ordering
services, you must use the Penney's catalog number and NOT the BSA's
stocking numbers. You can charge your BSA uniform purchases to their credit
card, VISA, MasterCard, or American Express cards using their secure server
pages online.
Sears (http://www.sears.com) also is a national distributor of official BSA
items, but their website is not available for ordering those items online.
You can however, order uniforms and some basic books by going to any Sears
store and placing a special order; or by calling the local Sears store. (As
you may be aware, Sears no longer has a retail catalog.)
[I'm not endorsing nor receiving any financial support whatsoever from
Penney's nor Sears for posting their information; the information provided
is merely as part of our response to inquiries. I do hold an inactive JC
Penney's credit card, however.]
Additionally, the BSA Supply Division, in concert with local Councils
throughout the United States, also grants distributorships to local
department or sporting goods stores which may or may not have a website. The
best advice is to check with YOUR local Council office to see where Scouting
uniforms and basic items can be purchased locally; and then follow that up
with a phone call or visit to that firm or store and ask the management team
if it is possible to order Scouting items from their store or firm via their
website or page.
Some local Councils, for instance, the Simon Kenton Council, places the
names, addresses and phone numbers of the Supply Division's authorized local
distributors on their website. So check your Council's website for that
information as well.
Of course, the BEST WAY to order your official BSA items is through the
BSA's Supply Division through their tollfree number (1-800-323-0732) or
locally through your local Council Service Center using their tollfree
number or a local number.
PRESENT BSA POLICY DOES NOT PERMIT LOCAL COUNCILS TO SELL ANY BSA-LABELED
MERCHANDISE VIA A WEBSITE. This is nonwaivable and is in place to prevent
non-BSA members from having access to official BSA materials and uniform
items. Most local Councils with Internet (email) access WILL, however, take
an order via email or fax if you include your name, address and a credit or
debit card number to pay for the items. For instance, the Gerald R. Ford
Council offers to fill orders via mail, fax, email or phone and to send them
out virtually anywhere by US Postal Service or UPS. Remember that sending
your credit or debit card information in this manner is NOT SECURE, and
therefore you may want to send that information via fax or by calling the
local Council's trading post and providing them with that information.
Councils and BSA Scout
Shops (tm) will take personal checks or postal money orders in addition to
cash; and most locations honor Visa, MasterCard, American Express and
Discover credit cards.
---------
As a followup, many Scouters and parents have asked when will the BSA's
official Supply Division site (http://www.bsa.scouting.org/stuff) have a
section in which Scouters and parents may safely order basic items. The
answer is "Not in the near future," according to the BSA. The problem is in
how to route and safely manage what would be potentially be a riverfall of
requests and items to a staff which is small and getting smaller within the
next year or two. The BSA IS looking into the possibility of making
available BASIC YOUTH uniforms, books and some insignia online; it is at
least nine months to two years away from implementation, however.
"Basic books and insignia" by the BSA's definition include:
- Wolf, Bear, WEBELOS, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, and Venturing handbooks
- youth leadership guides and materials
- basic adult leadership books
- the Fieldbook and other outdoor guides and booklets
- local Council (and perhaps adjacent Council) Shoulder Patches (CSPs),
unit numbers, Patrol and Den emblems and numbers, US Flag and World Crest
emblems, and shoulder loops for Cub Scouts/Scouters, Boy Scouts/Scouters,
Venturing leaders; and District/Council volunteers.
- some accessories like Pinewood/Kite/Rocket Derby kits, watches and
pocketknives, cups and bookmarks and the like
It does NOT include items like rank advancement, awards, flag streamers,
plaques, or materials and books above those basic manauls for youth and
adult members listed above. Nor does it include items like year pins,
veterans' bars, Cub Scout academic and sports belt loops, or interpreter
strips. Those items MUST be purchased or ordered through the local Council's
Service Center or through a Scout Shop(tm) authorized to receive BSA
Advancement Reports for local Council(s).
The BSA wishes for you as a parent or Scouter to come into the local Council
Service Center or into their retail Scout Shops(tm) set up in larger local
Councils and in metropolitan communities. In this way, you are assured of
having assistance with getting the items you need by people involved in the
programs and assurances that the items you purchase will be exchanged or
your monies refunded if they do not hold up to your standard.
The Internet brings a wide array of possibilities for the BSA and for you as
a family. Making available uniforming and basic books and insignia to Scouts
and Scouters has always been a BSA priority, a cornerstone since its
founding. However, with every new innovation in marketing and sales comes
some risks too. Please be patient as the BSA finds a way to make their items
available while at the same time to maintain its high degree of service and
satistfaction to Scouters and Scouts and to the parents of the youth members
of the BSA's three programs.
Penney's and Sears are also authorized national distributors of Girl Scouts
of the USA uniforms, basic insignia and books.
We hope that this information has been of benefit to you as we start a new
year of Scouting in America and as the Internet and in particular the World
Wide Web (WWW) continues to catch on among our families, those of us
involved in Scouting and those of us whom support Scouting and the great
things it has and can do for our nation's youth. Hope this has helped out
those seeking a way to order uniforms online!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:39:39 -0400
Reply-To: Ed Schmitt <eschmitt@PENN.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Ed Schmitt <eschmitt@PENN.COM>
Subject: Re: Getting the word out still does not work
X-To: jparker@CNG.DL.NEC.COM
In-Reply-To: <89919838930CD31191C60000778DFA7F3A3786@MSSDMAIL1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Julie Parker gave some good suggestions in what we as leaders have to do in
communicating information to the units.
>Suggestions:
>* To rely on verbal communications, is always a bad idea!
>* Handouts should contain any and all information required to participate in
>the event, (example: Date, Time, Cost, Description, Map & Directions, What
>to Bring, What to Wear, Who to contact for more questions, etc.).
>* Softcopy of Handouts should be posted to District Website and archived for
>later reference.
>* Handouts need to be a "live" document, if clarifications are required --
>then the document should be changed, posted and distributed to reflect these
>changes.
>* Email mailing distribution list should be set-up to distribute last minute
>changes
>
>As Volunteers and Leaders, we need to leverage everything that we do in
>order to be effective.
>
>If the District is unable to distribute information down to each and every
>Unit, then it creates a great deal of confusion & frustration at the Unit
>level. Unfortunately, the Scouts usually suffer in the end.
That does not always work.
For an event we put on for Cub Scouts, our inital information went out in
May, with flyers handed out at roundtables, flyers sent to all unit
leaders, and information put into the council newletter. All through the
summer we advertized it on cable news, news papers, and in August we held a
rally at the council information launch. In August flyers and applications
were mailed out to all registered Cub Scout leaders and commissioners.
September we again sent information and applications out. At school night
this information was again made available. One week before the event we
did a phone blitz and called all the unit leaders and the response we
received was that they will not come to the event because they did not know
anything about it. What more can be done to make sure that the leaders
really know about any type of event.
Ed
Council Cub Chairman
Bucktail Council, DuBois PA From the weather capital of the world
I used to be a Buffalo Punxsutawney, PA, have a weatherful day
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:57:03 -0500
Reply-To: "Roman J. Smith" <Roman.J.Smith.13@ND.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Roman J. Smith" <Roman.J.Smith.13@ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing Policy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Calvin H. Gray writes:
>Joel,
>
>Our policy is that adults don't get involved with the set-up and take-
>down of camp as our Scouts take care of this. And they don't seem to
>ruin their uniforms in this process. Once we arrive at our destination,
>we do allow campers to change into a T-shirt if they desire.
I find it odd that adults are not involved in the process of setting up and
breaking camp. In our troop, adults put up their own tents, set up their
own stove, and setup and connect all the propane tanks. And, yes I have
gotten quite muddy, greasy, and wet doing all of that. I do not wear my
long scout pants while setting up or taking down camp. I will probibly
have my shirt on, I may have my shorts on in the summer, but I will not
have only pair of long scout pants on at that time.
YiS
-----------------------------------
Roman J. Smith
University of Notre Dame
(219)631-4624 Fax: (219)631-8223
E-Mail: roman.j.smith.13@nd.edu / Web: http://www.nd.edu/~invest/
------------------------------------
Scoutmaster, Troop 505 / Committee Member, Ship 505
-I used to be an Owl
http://www.nd.edu/~rsmith1/RJSBSA.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:17:55 -0400
Reply-To: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Norman Turrill <nturrill@NETRAX.NET>
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing Policy Troop 28
X-cc: JoelMarc@AOL.COM
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Joel,
Our troop follows a policy of Class A, B, and C uniforms similar to that
detailed at this site:
<http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/abcd.htm>
except that we have yet to distinguish between formal Class A and normal
Class A uniform occasions. Generally, Class C (D at the above site)
uniforms are used on weekend outings. If there is any question, the SPLs
(we have 3 of them in our troop of nearly 100 scouts!) declare a "uniform of
the day" as A, B, or C.
Hope this helps.
YiS,
Norman
ASM and Advancement Chair, Troop 203
Keystone Area Council
--------------
Norman Turrill email: nturrill@netrax.net
voicemail: 717-531-4435 (office) or 717-534-2709 (home)
snailmail: 30 Hill Manor Drive, Hershey PA 17033
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 05:31:36 -0400
Reply-To: Sean_O_Scott@SD.FISC.NAVY.MIL
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sean Scott <Sean_O_Scott@SD.FISC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
X-To: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>I am forwarding part of a message I received from a friend for those of you
>>trying to deal with council computer issues and Scoutnet 2000. I have been
>>told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL Server, but what do I
>>know, I work on a Mac.
OK, this is my area of expertice, as I'm a database administrator. I've worked
with Oracle and SQL Server, and take my word for it, SQL Server would make
things worse.
>>BSA has met with Oracle to resolve this problem but with no response. The
>>server does not keep the data separate by councils. Therefore, it serches
>>the entire data base for every entry of names.<
The problem is likely in design. Oracle is a very good product, but if you
design the relationships poorly, write bad code to extract the information,
etc., it won't perform well. Kind of like a Formula 1 car...if you don't tune
it well, my little four-banger pickup will beat it around the track. I've got
14 databases running here, and I can tell you who the good and the bad
programers
are just by how many complaints I get about response time on each server.
Oracle won't be able to help if the problem is bad design...Anyone from
National
want to hire me to fix the thing???
Sean Scott
Cubmaster, Pack 307 (and WDL and Tiger Coach and webmaster and..and..and
Oracle DBA during the remaining hour a week)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:17:11 -0400
Reply-To: "Jeff L. Glaze" <jglaze@SUBASIC.SCIATL.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Jeff L. Glaze" <jglaze@SUBASIC.SCIATL.COM>
Subject: Re: Registry of Eagles
X-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
<blackeagle@scouter.net>
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19990930083003.0f071596@SCOUTER.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:26 PM 9/30/99 -0500, (MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
wrote:
>all at the BSA's Eagle Scout Service, and if you write to them giving the
>following information, they will check their records and reply back within
>about a month or two:
>
>Full name of the Eagle
>City and State in which he earned Eagle
>Troop number (if known)
>HEADQUARTERS CITY AND STATE OF COUNCIL
>
>There is NO "online" tool or database to check or go to.
Mike, et al,
I have researched the Eagle records myself at National a few years
back when I traveled there on business. It is a difficult process
requiring you to look through handwritten ledger books going back
for many years, and then some large bound volumes of computer
printouts for more recent years. It occurred to me on my visit,
that it would be a great service to scouting if the local (Dallas)
NESA chapter coordinated a group of volunteers in transcribing
those records and entered them into a "common" computerized
database (I say "common" meaning a very common format that
could be exported/imported into other database applications) that
could be made available either to National's Scout Net 2000, or
even for sale on CD.
Has anyone ever heard of any effort along this line? Has it ever
been suggested to either NESA or National? If not, consider
the suggestion made!! : )
Jeff L. Glaze, webmaster
Button Gwinnett District Web Site
Atlanta Area Council, BSA
http://www.bsa.net/ga/aac/ned/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:38:09 -0400
Reply-To: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
X-To: Chris Summers <ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM>
In-Reply-To: <1af6ce84.25256c13@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Chris Summers wrote:
> I am forwarding part of a message I received from a friend for those of you
> trying to deal with council computer issues and Scoutnet 2000. I have been
> told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL Server, but what do I
> know, I work on a Mac.
>
>
>
> >BSA has met with Oracle to resolve this problem but with no response. The
> server does not keep the data separate by councils. Therefore, it serches
> the entire data base for every entry of names.<
>
> Yours truly in a techno fog
> Chris in Houston
>
This is a "concept" problem, not a "server" problem, an "OS" program, a
"hardware mfr" problem, or even a "language" problem. SOMEONE decided
one of the following:
1) it would be handy to have a centralized record of the Scouting career
of Timmy Army-brat who entered Tigers in Columbia SC, Cubs in Ft. Hood
Texas, Weebs at Ft. Wainwright Alaska, got First class at Honolulu, made
Star in Wiesbaden, and Eagled in Fond-du-Lac.
2) alphabetical by surname is faster to search than chrono by council
then alpha by surname.
3) it doesn't matter how you store the data, so long as the system can
find it.
And *THEN* someone else tested it at 4 a.m. Eastern with 6 users instead of
at 1 p.m. Central with 24 users. Too few people understand that the
speed of the server is directly proportional to the number of people
using the 'net *AS WELL AS* to the number of people using that server at
any given instant. (Too many people on the 'net will get you a
"circuits-busy" signal; too many people on that server gets you a "Server
Not Responding".) It doesn't matter how fast your server is if my ISP
can't get TO your server.
Cheryl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:58:20 -0400
Reply-To: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Cheryl Singhal <csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Getting the word out still does not work
X-To: Ed Schmitt <eschmitt@PENN.COM>
In-Reply-To: <l03130304b41a4b114d0f@[206.229.113.163]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Ed Schmitt wrote:
In response to:
> Julie Parker gave some good suggestions in what we as leaders have to do in
> communicating information to the units.
> > this information was again made available. One week before the event we
> did a phone blitz and called all the unit leaders and the response we
> received was that they will not come to the event because they did not know
> anything about it. What more can be done to make sure that the leaders
> really know about any type of event.
*START* with the phone calls. I don't know about others, but at this
snail address we discard approximately 1 cubic foot of mail each week.
If I'm looking for something about the Bell-ringing, I'll open mail, even
the obviously junk stuff, until I *get* something about the bell-ringing.
Then in the MAILING make sure you use *exactly* the same name for the
event as you used in the phone call. DO NOT call it The Low-Down
Low-Down on the phone and The Annual Info Exchange in the letter -- or
vice versa. It's also helpful to begin the letter with "As promised in
our phone conversation last week, here's the info on The Low-Down
Low-Down..."
Structure the mailings -- the first one gives bare-bones, because you're
just trying to get on people's horizon and calendars. Each successive
one should contain additional information FIRST! bbefore repeating the
essentials from the previous ones. (And essentials do not include the
all-pervasive overriding importance of EVERYONE and his brother attending
this meeting. Essentials: WHO , WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, HOW.)
And, she tacked on in an acid aside, it helps if the Troop, Lodge, Pack,
District, and Council don't ALL schedule VITALLY IMPORTANT!! meetings the
same afternoon. This leads a certain number of folk to suspect that if
these meetings were *all* all that important there would have been some
coordination here. (g)
HTH
Cheryl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:07:54 -0400
Reply-To: Forshaw <dtlfor@FORYOU.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Forshaw <dtlfor@FORYOU.NET>
Subject: Re: Chigger bites
In-Reply-To: <4f31e3c3.25255a44@aol.com>
Use bleach with great caution. This year at summer camp, the camp nurse
assured me it would cure my poison ivy, then applied the bleach to the
affected area. From this single application, I developed a very painful
chemical burn which took several weeks to heal. Now, about 14 weeks
later, I still have discoloration from the burn.
- Tee
> Gene reported that stick deoderant was good for chigger
> bites. The best
> medicine ever for chiggers is bleach. Cut 50/50 with water
> will work fine,
> full strength will burn only if the bite has been scratched.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: Jon_A._Handwerk@FIRSTENERGYCORP.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Jon Handwerk <Jon_A._Handwerk@FIRSTENERGYCORP.COM>
Subject: A Scoutmasters Dilemma
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I am a Scoutmaster of a new troop. I am the only person who in the adult
leadership who has attended any BSA training. I need some advice on how to
handle the following situation which has recently come up in our Troop. Sorry it
is a little long.
Two weeks ago we had several problems that combined caused us to have a poorly
run meeting.
1. The committee and myself planned the swim party in place of the PLC
planning meeting. This prevented the PLC from planning September's events. Both
where equally important, so more thought needs to go into this type of planning
to avoid this in the future.
2. Then the Pack changed their meeting night to Tuesdays which left us without
a meeting place until Chris came up with the building out front as an alternate.
I have shared our calendar with the Pack in hopes that we could work together to
solve the problem but they have not shared information with me on what nights
they will be using the Church. I was caught completely of guard when they met
two weeks in a row this month. I do not feel that both the Troop and the Pack
can meet on the same night. The charter rep needs to determine when both groups
should be meeting and let them know so they can adjust meeting nights.
3. Because the pack was meeting the same night as us, our popcorn kernel had
to fulfill his obligation to the pack first. This was understandable and his
efforts are appreciated, but this left myself and the Troop confused on how the
popcorn kickoff meeting should be run. This problem will be remedied by not
allowing the pack and the Troop to operate on the same night.
As a result of the above problems the Charter Representatives wife decided at
the next meeting the troop would do patrol flags and told no one until she
showed up at the meeting and told the Scouts they where going to do patrol flags
this week. I did not want to show any dissension among the adult leaders so I
allowed her to do it, besides when the Scouts found out most of the boys really
wanted to do the flags esspecially if mom was going to tell them how they were
to be done. But it has brought up the following problems.
1. The Scoutmasters primary responsibility is to guide the PLC in planing and
running Troop meetings and activities with input from the Committee and support
from the Assistant Scoutmasters. If we take responsibility away from the boys
they will become less willing to lead in the future. The PLC and myself had
planned this meeting to be a planning meeting for the Camporee. I personally
spent several hours preparing to run a small leadership-training program, which
is one of my responsibilities. Now this can not be done until next month because
of time constraints and it is something that our Scouts need now more than ever.
Again, I should have communicated the importance of this to the committee.
2. The PLC and myself felt they needed more time to plan for the Camporee
moving the planning meeting would have given them an extra week to plan for the
event. Instead they now have only two weeks to plan and they have more to
complete than at a normal campout. I feel we have set them up for failure and
embarrassment at the Camporee by not allowing them to operate the troop for
themselves and at the very least they now have to work extra hard to get
everything ready. I emphasize they, not us not me, they plan the activities with
the Scoutmasters guidance. The Scouts get told what and how to do things
everyday at home and school and in sports. The Boy Scouts is their opportunity
to decide what they think should be done. We all need to allow them to make
mistakes in scouting but provide them with opportunity to succeed and learn.
3. Also, the patrols need to meet once in while outside of the troop meetings
to foster patrol spirit and get them used to running meetings on their own and
making decisions. The patrol flags were my attempt to motivate the scouts to do
this. Since there was no requirement to have patrol flags the troop could afford
to wait for the boys to decide it was something they where willing to do. I
should have communicated the importance of this to the committee and gotten the
committees input on this decision.
4. In the future problems and concerns should be addressed here in the
committee meeting. I am open to suggestions and advice from all committee
members and involved parents and I will do my best to conduct the Troop by the
standards set by the Committee not individuals. As in the past there will always
be something planned for all trop meetings, if you have an idea for a troop
meeting or activity bring it to the Committee meeting and we will try to
implement it. Remember Troop meetings are the Scouts time and parents should
allow the adult leaders to concentrate on the Scouts and their questions during
that time.
The meeting ended with the CR telling me (not asking) that he was going to be an
Assistant Scoutmaster and crack the whip on the SPL to make sure he has all the
meetings planned in the future. My intent is to present this to the committee
and let them decide but so far the committee has done very little except handle
money and print a newsletter of the information that I provide to them.
I would appreciate any advice on how to go forward. I do want to be the
Scoutmaster and Enjoy working with the boys but I am pretty sure this will not
result in a positive outcome for the troop.
Jon Handwerk
Scoutmaster Troop 514, Ohio
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:13:05 -0400
Reply-To: Robert Caron <robert.caron@UMB.EDU>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Robert Caron <robert.caron@UMB.EDU>
Organization: University of Massachusetts Boston
Subject: Re: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
X-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Chris Summers wrote:
>
> I am forwarding part of a message I received from a friend for those of you
> trying to deal with council computer issues and Scoutnet 2000. I have been
> told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL Server, but what do I
> know, I work on a Mac.
And as we Mac users know, WE don't have to contend with this kind of bull****.
I'm starting to think I could do a better job running ScoutNet2000 from my
home machine using FileMaker Pro!!!
--
Robert Caron
Troop Committee Secretary, Northborough Troop 101
Brotherhood, Chippanyonk Lodge #59, OA
Knox Trail Council #244, BSA
Eagle, NE-I-193
Massachusetts
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:20:30 -0500
Reply-To: jparker@CNG.DL.NEC.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Jim Parker <jparker@CNG.DL.NEC.COM>
Subject: Re: Getting the word out still does not work
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
<<Julie Parker gave some good suggestions>>
Actually my first name is Jim.
Regarding calling folks, I'm sure that it's very effective but it's also
very time consuming.
I feel that a more practical approach would be to provide meaningful
handouts at the monthly Roundtable Mtgs, post the handouts on the website
(in case someone looses it) and only follow-up with phone calls if you have
last minute changes.
Might "burn-out" the volunteers that are making all of the phone calls.
Jim Parker
-----Original Message-----
From: Cheryl Singhal [mailto:csinghal@CAPACCESS.ORG]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:58 AM
To: SCOUTS-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU
Subject: Re: Getting the word out still does not work
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Ed Schmitt wrote:
In response to:
> Julie Parker gave some good suggestions in what we as leaders have to do
in
> communicating information to the units.
> > this information was again made available. One week before the event
we
> did a phone blitz and called all the unit leaders and the response we
> received was that they will not come to the event because they did not
know
> anything about it. What more can be done to make sure that the leaders
> really know about any type of event.
*START* with the phone calls. I don't know about others, but at this
snail address we discard approximately 1 cubic foot of mail each week.
If I'm looking for something about the Bell-ringing, I'll open mail, even
the obviously junk stuff, until I *get* something about the bell-ringing.
Then in the MAILING make sure you use *exactly* the same name for the
event as you used in the phone call. DO NOT call it The Low-Down
Low-Down on the phone and The Annual Info Exchange in the letter -- or
vice versa. It's also helpful to begin the letter with "As promised in
our phone conversation last week, here's the info on The Low-Down
Low-Down..."
Structure the mailings -- the first one gives bare-bones, because you're
just trying to get on people's horizon and calendars. Each successive
one should contain additional information FIRST! bbefore repeating the
essentials from the previous ones. (And essentials do not include the
all-pervasive overriding importance of EVERYONE and his brother attending
this meeting. Essentials: WHO , WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, HOW.)
And, she tacked on in an acid aside, it helps if the Troop, Lodge, Pack,
District, and Council don't ALL schedule VITALLY IMPORTANT!! meetings the
same afternoon. This leads a certain number of folk to suspect that if
these meetings were *all* all that important there would have been some
coordination here. (g)
HTH
Cheryl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:17:12 -0600
Reply-To: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
Subject: uniform wearing policy (why?)
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>Should I except camping trips? Only non Council events? Or stick to our policy
and
>risk alienating the only assistant that I have right now. Remember, I just
>took over this Troop and am rebuilding it from the ground floor. What is your
>policy? How do you think I should proceed?
Why wear them at all? Lots of fine answers here except no one has explained why
a 15 year old boy should wear a uniform in the first place. If you don't
establish that with the Scouts, then it's just the adults telling the boys to do
what we say because we are adults. Traveling to and from camp is the only time
that I as an adult or SM ask the Scouts to wear their class "A" uniforms. The
rest of the time our PLC sets the policy. I ask Scouts to wear class "A"s
because we usually stop someplace to grab a bite to eat or gas up and when 50
Scouts run into a store all at once, the store clerk and customers can feel very
intimidated by a bunch of dirty boys running around grabbing cokes and snacks.
In most cases the uniform will ease their concern because they know the boys are
part of one group and if they have any trouble, the can grab the first adult
they see in the uniform. The uniform helps us adults and the SPL to look quickly
and see who is still in the store and it hold the Scout accountable for his
actions in front of strangers.
Our Scouts know this because I tell them it all the time. But you have to
explain the whys of the uniform for all occasions. To say wear the uniform just
because you as the adult like the looks of a Group of boys in uniform isn't
enough. Infact, it's wrong. Ask yourself how does wearing the uniform fit in
the Three Aims of Scouting. Once you figure that out, learn to explain why we
wear a uniform to the Scouts. Learn to trust the Scouts to make the decision.
When they don't make the right decision, try to learn why before your jump up
and cry foal. It might be that you still haven't done a good job explaining it's
value. It could be they hate the Troop, their Patrol or their family is going
through hard times and the uniform is a very small priority in their life at
that time. Many of my conversations with Scouts started with "are you doing OK
or is everything OK at home? How is School going?"". Many times I ask these
questions just because they aren't in uniform. Try not to react (takes lots of
practice) and have patience. I find the uniform method is the best of the eight
methods for teaching the adults how to work with the Scouts in the three aims of
Scouting because it forces us to understand why it's important for developing a
boys character. When we learn how to motivate a Scout to proudly wear the
uniform, not intimidate, but motivate, then we start focusing in the values of
character the Scouts will take with them the rest of their lives. So explain the
whys of wearing the uniform before you order them in it. Never make a Scout do
something that you can't explain why. You will gain his respect quickly.
And for goodness sake, have a great weekend, will ya!
I love this Scouting Stuff.
Barry Runnels
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:46:56 -0500
Reply-To: trinoaks@FLASH.NET
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Sarah Nunez <trinoaks@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Apology
It has been brought to my attention that the wording of some of my posts
to this list in the past has been less than complimentary toward certain
individuals in my troop. None were identified by name, but a couple
were identified by title, namely the SM and the (former) SPL. I agree
that I should have been more tactful and discreet in my choice of words,
and I will endeavor to be so in the future. Because these comments were
posted publicly to the list, I am asking the forgiveness of the list as
well as of those individuals (to whom copies of this post are being
sent).
Sarah Nunez
trinoaks@flash.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:59:21 -0700
Reply-To: AHitchi@BART.GOV
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: "Anthony J. Hitchings, ASM T42, San Mateo" <AHitchi@BART.GOV>
Subject: Grand Canyon
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If you have any adults who don't want to hike all the way down and out,
but are driving scouts anyway,
a hard but rewarding option is
Down south Kaibab
Left on Tonto Trail - hike to Indian Gardens
Out to the lookout point (lower gorge view) and back
Up Bright Angel
my wife and I did this as a day trip in spring, it was a wonderful trip.
We carried a PUR filter, and got water at 2 locations, one on the Tonto,
the other at Indian Gardens.
And for the reaaly athletically imparied, go down and back about a mile on
the South Kaibab - MUCH better views than Bright Angel, not much vertical.
Take the Shuttle Bus to get to the South Kaibab trailhead
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:20:19 -0500
Reply-To: John Peschken <big.thunder@BIGFOOT.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: John Peschken <big.thunder@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Introduction
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Scouts-L List members,
I've been following the conversations and occasionally speaking up here on
Scouts-L for quite awhile, but it recently occurred to me that I've never
formally introduced myself! How impolite is that?
I am currently an Assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 94 in Maple Grove,
Minnesota. We are part of the Northern Lights District and the Viking
Council. We are a relatively young troop at 6 years old with 25 Scouts. We
are finally getting up to speed in a lot of ways, particularly regarding Jr.
Leadership and Program planning. We are very proud of our troop, and have
earned the "Quality Unit" award for the last three years. In the last year,
we had our first Eagle Scouts, and we did it in a big way with four of them.
I have just come off a two year term as the Committee Chairman. Over the
past 5 years, I have held the position of Camping Chair, Secretary,
Advancement Chair. I have always combined these with Assistant
Scoutmastering. I like doing that stuff the best. Before that, I spent 4
years as a Den Leader with Pack 484, also in Maple Grove, MN.
I was a Cub and Boy Scout myself. I was a Boy Scout myself from '63 to '67.
During that time, I rose to the lofty rank of 2nd Class. Nonetheless,
Scouting was a great experience that I will always remember fondly.
I completed the last of the three weekends of Wood Badge Training (C-23-99)
last weekend. A fabulous experience. I highly recommend it. "I used to be
an Owl". Only the small detail of working my ticket remains <grin>. By the
way ... how long does it take before you quit singing that song to yourself
everywhere you walk?
I currently have two sons in the troop. They are 15 (currently the Senior
Patrol Leader) and 13 (currently a Patrol Leader). Both are Life Scouts. I
have a daughter who is 11, and loves camping and the outdoors. She dearly
wishes she could join the Boy Scouts ... not enough of an outdoors program
to suit her tastes in her Girl Scout troop.
Over the past several months, I have greatly appreciated the information and
advice I have found on Scouts-L, and hope that I can contribute something
worthwhile now and then.
John Peschken
Assistant Scoutmaster
BSA Troop 94
Viking Council, Northern Lights District
Maple Grove, Minnesota, USA
"I used to be an Owl" C-23-99
<---------<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:34:55 -0500
Reply-To: John Peschken <big.thunder@BIGFOOT.COM>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: John Peschken <big.thunder@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Adult Training
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I'm looking for good ways to encourage adult leaders to do training. Almost
all of our leaders are trained, but the flock that joined us last spring
seems to be somewhat resistant to the idea. I hesitate to work for the
implementation of a "You must take training!" rule. Forcing someone do
something rarely seems to result in enthusiastic participation. Public
recognition at a Court of Honor is always good, but that doesn't happen
until after they do the training. What have you folks done?
John Peschken
Maple Grove, Minnesota, USA
Assistant Scoutmaster
BSA Troop 94
Viking Council, Northern Lights District
|<-----<<<| "I used to be an Owl" C-23-99
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:18:23 -0700
Reply-To: Lynn R Oakleaf <oakleaf3@JPS.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu>
From: Lynn R Oakleaf <oakleaf3@JPS.NET>
Subject: Classes of Uniforms
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I keep reading about Class A, Class B uniforms, etc Are they defined =
anyplace in BSA, or taken from the Arrmy? Not everyone was in the Army, =
except for Major Walton, so I would appreciate some guidance as to just =
what each Class is, but I would like to see this as a BSA guideline, not =
an Army guideline or Troop guideline. Is there official BSA guidance =
on what each class of uniform is?
Thanks
Lynn Oakleaf
Committee Chair
Troop 277
Pleasant Hill, CA
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF0BED.E8FFDBE0
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I keep reading about Class A, Class B =
uniforms,=20
etc Are they defined anyplace in BSA, or taken from the =
Arrmy? =20
Not everyone was in the Army, except for Major Walton, so I would=20
appreciate some guidance as to just what each Class is, but I would =
like to=20
see this as a BSA guideline, not an Army guideline or Troop=20
guideline. Is there official BSA guidance on what each =
class=20
of uniform is?
Thanks
Lynn Oakleaf
Committee Chair
Troop 277
Pleasant Hill, =
CA
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:37:52 -0500
Reply-To: corzines@SIU.EDU
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: corzines@SIU.EDU
Subject: Friendship
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This was sent to me by a very dear friend, and even though it has nothing
to do with Scouting directly, it has something to do with being a
human being and touching other peoples' lives.
Deb Morrow
FRIENDSHIP
Mark was walking home from school one day when he
noticed the boy ahead of him had tripped and dropped
all of the books he was carrying, along with two
sweaters, a baseball bat, a glove and a small
tape recorder. Mark knelt down and helped the boy pick
up the scattered articles. Since they were going the
same way, he helped carry part of the burden.
As they walked Mark discovered the boy's name was
Bill, that he loved video games, baseball and
history,and that he was having lots of trouble with
his other subjects and that he had just broken up with
his girlfriend. They arrived at Bill's home first and
Mark was invited in for a Coke and to watch some
television. The afternoon passed pleasantly with a
few laughs and some shared small talk, then Mark went
home.
They continued to see each other around school, had
lunch together once or twice,then both graduated from
junior high school. They ended up in the same high
school where they had brief contacts over the years.
Finally the long-awaited senior year came and three
weeks before graduation, Bill asked Mark if they could
talk.
Bill reminded him of the day years ago when they had
first met. "Did you ever wonder why I was carrying so
many things home that day?" asked Bill.
"You see, I cleaned out my locker because I didn't
want to leave a mess for anyone else. I had stored
away some of my mother's sleeping pills and I was
going home to commit suicide. But after we spent some
time together talking and laughing, I realized that if
I had killed myself, I would have missed that time and
so many others that might follow.
So you see, Mark, when you picked up those books that
day, you did a lot more than help me carry my stuff,
you saved my life."
Every little hello, every little smile, every helping
hand saves a hurting heart. Pass it on. With this
email also comes the token that says that YOU are
special. There's a miracle called Friendship that
dwells in the heart.
You don't know how it happens or when it gets
started but, you know the special lift it always
brings and you realize that Friendship Is God's most
precious gift!
It's National Friendship Week. Friends are a very rare
jewel, indeed.
They make you smile and encourage you to succeed. They
lend an ear, they share a word of praise, and they
always want to open their heart to us. Show your
friends how much you care.....Send this to everyone
you consider a FRIEND, even the person that sent this
to you. If it comes back to you, then you'll know you
have a Friend for life. Show your friends how much you
appreciate them and what they mean to you.........
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:35:33 -0700
Reply-To: bob prentice
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: bob prentice
Subject: Re: class of uniforms
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Fellow Scouters:
Lyn wrote:
I keep reading about Class A, Class B uniforms, etc Are they defined
anyplace in BSA, or taken from the Arrmy? Not everyone was in the Army,
except for Major Walton, so I would appreciate some guidance as to just what
each Class is, but I would like to see this as a BSA guideline, not an Army
guideline or Troop guideline. Is there official BSA guidance on what each
class of uniform is?
Lyn-
The BSA does not "officially" designate uniforms as class A, B, C, D etc.
This, I am told is a hold over from
when scoutmasters were dominated by ex-militaty personel after the war.
The "dress" uniform or class A, is the Scout shirt, Scout Pants, Scout Belt,
Scout Neckerchief, etc with all the patches. Some troops though add the
merit badge sash to the definition of dress or Class A uniform, and
therefore add another class to their list.
The acitivity "uniform" or class B, usually means troop t shirt, scout
pants and hat.
Hope this helps.
YIS
Bob Prentice
ASM Troop 263
Pacific Skyline Council
I still am a buffalo...WE3-55-99
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:41:30 -0400
Reply-To: Rich
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Rich
Subject: Re: Classes of Uniforms
X-To: Lynn R Oakleaf
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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BSA does NOT classify uniforms as Class A, B etc. These
classifications were invented by individual Scouts/Scouters
and have become accepted by common usage.
Officially, there is a "Field Uniform", an "Activity
Uniform" and a "Dress Uniform."
The "official uniforms" are as described and shown in the
current handbook and BSA catalog. (Oh yes they are!)
The etymology of the terms Class A, Class B etc. is a good
subject for a whole 'nuther thread.
--
Rich Locke
Williamsburg,VA
mailto:rfl@offpro.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:43:02 -0500
Reply-To: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET>
Organization: Troop 405, Georgetown, Texas
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing Policy
X-To: "Roman J. Smith"
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Roman J. Smith wrote:
>
> I find it odd that adults are not involved in the process of setting up and
> breaking camp. In our troop, adults put up their own tents, set up their
> own stove, and setup and connect all the propane tanks. And, yes I have
> gotten quite muddy, greasy, and wet doing all of that. I do not wear my
> long scout pants while setting up or taking down camp. I will probibly
> have my shirt on, I may have my shorts on in the summer, but I will not
> have only pair of long scout pants on at that time.
>
> YiS
>
Roman,
I guess I wasn't clear enough. Our adults handle their own tents and
equipment, and setting the lanterns and propane tanks. But Scouts
handle everything else.
I've seen lots of troops, especially those with mostly younger boys,
where the adults do almost everything when it comes to establishing and
breaking camp. My observation is that Scouts are usually very willing
to sit back and let the adults do the "dirty work" for them.
I suppose the weather down here provides an advantage for us as I've
only had two uniform items ruined during well over 300 days/nights of
camping with Scouts. One item was a shirt that somehow picked up an
oil stain. The other was a pair of trousers ruined when I sat down on
the ground next to a pine tree where sap had pooled on the ground. I've
also grown out of my several uniform items but that's a different story.
:-)
Our uniform policy is that we wear the uniform while travelling. Once
the destination is reached, Scouts may change into a t-shirt if the camp
or event allows this. We've travelled all over the country and we've
found that "Scouts in uniform" get a whole lot more consideration from
the public than those who aren't. And Scouts seem to behave better when
they are in uniform.
YiS,
--
Calvin H. Gray
Scoutmaster, Troop 405
Georgetown, Texas
I used to be an Owl (WM-62-2-98 @ Philmont)
mailto:405geezer@igg-tx.net
http://www.troop405.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:07:14 -0700
Reply-To: Evette Ogden
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Evette Ogden
Subject: Re: Adult Training
X-To: John Peschken
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I made a special neckerchief slide and award it to the boys if their parents
go to training. The response has been really great and the Pack has really
benefited from "informed" parents/leaders. The boys enthusiastically
motivate the parents to go so that they will get the tie slide, and we have
had a lot more parents involved with our committee since this was
implemented.
-=Evette Ogden=-
Asst. CM, Pack 80
Trailblazer District
Southern Sierra Council
Bakersfield, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: John Peschken
To: SCOUTS-L@LISTSERV.TCU.EDU
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:39 AM
Subject: Adult Training
>I'm looking for good ways to encourage adult leaders to do training.
Almost
>all of our leaders are trained, but the flock that joined us last spring
>seems to be somewhat resistant to the idea. I hesitate to work for the
>implementation of a "You must take training!" rule. Forcing someone do
>something rarely seems to result in enthusiastic participation. Public
>recognition at a Court of Honor is always good, but that doesn't happen
>until after they do the training. What have you folks done?
>
>John Peschken
>Maple Grove, Minnesota, USA
>Assistant Scoutmaster
>BSA Troop 94
>Viking Council, Northern Lights District
>|<-----<<<| "I used to be an Owl" C-23-99
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:32:02 -0400
Reply-To: "Bruce E. Cobern"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Bruce E. Cobern"
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing Policy
X-To: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Calvin H. Gray <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET>
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:54 PM
>I guess I wasn't clear enough. Our adults handle their own tents and
>equipment, and setting the lanterns and propane tanks. But Scouts
>handle everything else.
Well, after that clarification, you've described our situation as well.
>Our uniform policy is that we wear the uniform while travelling. Once
>the destination is reached, Scouts may change into a t-shirt if the
camp
>or event allows this. We've traveled all over the country and we've
>found that "Scouts in uniform" get a whole lot more consideration from
>the public than those who aren't. And Scouts seem to behave better
when
>they are in uniform.
We do the same, although we allow them to change out of uniform
completely while in camp (not just the shirts) unless the situation
dictates otherwise. Our Scouts usually change after their tents are set
up, but unless the weather is pretty poor, setting up a tent shouldn't
be too hard on a uniform.
I fully agree about traveling in uniform and the extra consideration
that you get when you are in uniform. Being in uniform also tends to
restrain some of the more potentially outrageous behavior and allow easy
identification of YOUR charges. (Unless you are on a train full of
Scouts on the way to Philmont where your charges look just like everyone
else's. :-) I insist on traveling in uniform on any trip I go on with
the Scouts and if those leading the trip (if its not me) decide
otherwise I might decide not to go. On our quadrennial trips to Walt
Disney World we wear "class A" when we board and leave AMTRAK and wear a
"class B" consisting of Scout shorts and trip T-shirt during our entire
time in the parks.
(BTW: WDW offers SIGNIFICANT discounts to Scout and other youth groups.
Contact Youth Education Services (YES) for details.)
--
Bruce E. Cobern
mailto:bec@pipeline.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:37:19 +0100
Reply-To: Ian N Ford
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Ian N Ford
Subject: Re: Adult Training
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The analogy that I have used is whether you would want to be given first aid
by a Red Cross volunteer who had bought a uniform but done any first aid
training ? Or what about a soccer referee who buys a whistle and tries to
referee a game without having had any training ? Scout Leaders work with
other people's kids ... would you want YOUR kids to be looked after by
someone who had not had training and just made it up as he went along ?
YiS
Ian N Ford
ADC (Adult Training) Greenwich, London UK
Trainer, Mayflower District, Transatlantic Council BSA
----- Original Message -----
From: John Peschken
To:
Sent: 01 October 1999 16:34
Subject: Adult Training
> I'm looking for good ways to encourage adult leaders to do training.
Almost
> all of our leaders are trained, but the flock that joined us last spring
> seems to be somewhat resistant to the idea ...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:34:03 -0700
Reply-To: Ted Burton
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Ted Burton
Subject: Re: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
X-To: ChrisinHouston@AOL.COM
In-Reply-To: <1af6ce84.25256c13@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 21:44 -0400 on 9/30/1999, Chris Summers spake about another update
on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh thus:
> I have been told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL
>Server, but what do I know, I work on a Mac.
What you know is that the maker of your computer and of its operating
system figured out in 1984 that the century was going to end, and
starting making things way back then that will function flawlessly on
1/2/2000 ... Unfortunately, as recently as a year ago the folks
in Redmond had still not figure that out. I would be nervous about
MS anything.
I do not know what Scoutnet 2000 is based on, might best have been
Oracle TM on Unix or Solaris. Why do I suspect it is a custom
programming exercise based on Win NT?
Nawa.
Ted
========================
Asst Scoutmaster, District Committee, District Commissioner,
Lewis-Clark Trail District, Inland Northwest Council 611, & 'a good
ol' Fox too'; Es Kaielgu Lodge 311, Tseminicum Chapter, Vigil,
mailto:scouter@valint.net ; and Macintosh fan. Take a look at
http://www.consultburton.com/scouter.html
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:32:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lilchpn125@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Fred Heilbrunn
Subject: Re: A Scoutmasters Dilemma
X-To: Jon_A._Handwerk@firstenergycorp.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jon,
It seems to me, from what you describe, that you are the only adult in your
troop that has any concept about how things are supposed to run. It is
certainly a good thing that others wish to be involved, but, and they need to
be told this, if they don't understand the program, the the adult direction
they offer will do more harm than good. As I see it you need to do the
following in order to put things and keep things right:
1. Arrange an appointment with the Institutional Head of your Chartered
Partner and your Charter Partner Representative. Explain your dilemma
(tactfully), what you perceive your job is as Scoutmaster, and offer as a
solution your vision for the troop.
2. Make it clear to any adult that seeks to be invasive on boy program that
you are the Scoutmaster and that as well-intentioned as their input is met,
they must first clear it with you to ensure that they are consistent with
your vision. You can explain that the program falls under your
responsibility, that you must by the definition of the title Scoutmaster know
everything that happens in the troop, and that you get the blame if they foul
it up. Encourage training for any adult that wishes to be involved, pointing
out that it will be easier for them to understand what you are trying to do.
3. Make it clear to any adult, including the Charter Partner Representative,
that if they insist on usurping your authority, that you would happily allow
them to become Scoutmaster (watch how fast they back up). The Charter Partner
Representative certainly has the authority to do exactly what he has stated
to you in becoming an Assistant Scoutmaster and "cracking the whip". You can
point out to him that while his intent is good, you cannot agree with this
action and that if he wishes to pursue it, he will instead find his time
occupied with a Scoutmaster search.
I fully understand the joys of Scoutmastering and why you would not wish to
give that up. It is improbable that anyone involved would want to officially
take over (although you never know for sure), so it will be likely that your
vision for the troop can go forward. If someone does step up to take the job,
let them have it. While they will make some blunders, that is a whole lot
better than creating devisiveness in your troop. Eventually they will either
come around towards your way of thinking or they will tire themselves out and
you will be asked to fill the void again. Being "Scoutmaster" is not fun
anymore when other adults impose their own agenda.
As for fixing the program problems, all this will straighten itself out once
improper adult interference is eliminated. In the meantime, de-emphasize the
competitiveness of the upcoming camporee: tell your boys that your
expectations do not necessarily include coming home with the First Place
ribbon. Their objectives instead should be:
1. Do the very best they can do.
2. Learn as much as they can.
3. Live up to the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Motto and Slogan.
4. Most importantly -- have FUN!!
Best of Luck,
Fred Heilbrunn
Scoutmaster, Troop 125
Mount Vernon, WA
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:19:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lilchpn125@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Fred Heilbrunn
Subject: Re: A Scoutmasters Dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 99-10-01 16:53:56 EDT, lkburnaby@mediaone.net writes:
<<
I would like to add one item. I would suggest that the Unit Commissioner or
District Exec be included in the meeting.
They will be neutral in the personality mix and can add the weight of
experience to Jons' position as the Scoutmaster by explaining the program
aims of the BSA. I would not make the assumption that the Institutional
Head of the Chartered
Partner will automatically support Jon. >>
I agree. My oversight in the response, sorry. Unit Commissioner should be
part of the mix. If there is no Unit Commish, then the District Commissioner.
Failing that, then the District Executive. It is properly a Commissioner's
function to help solve this kind of problem; the District Executive's
involvement should only be necessary if no Commissioner is available. The DE
should have other important things to do.
Fred Heilbrunn
Scoutmaster, Troop 125
Mount Vernon, WA
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From: "Laurie K. Burnaby"
To: ,
References: <20f628d8.25267458@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A Scoutmasters Dilemma
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:49:29 -0400
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I would like to add one item. I would suggest that the Unit Commissioner or
District Exec be included in the meeting.
They will be neutral in the personality mix and can add the weight of
experience to Jons' position as the Scoutmaster by explaining the program
aims of the BSA. I would not make the assumption that the Institutional
Head of the Chartered
Partner will automatically support Jon.
I had suggested to Jon , in a private response, that he contact the UC or DE
now before this situation builds up to the potential disaster it could be.
Yours in Scouting
(MR) Laurie K. Burnaby Unit Commissioner
Great Ponds District Old Colony Council - Canton, MA
I used to be an Eagle
lkburnaby@mediaone.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Heilbrunn
To:
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: A Scoutmasters Dilemma
> Jon,
>
> It seems to me, from what you describe, that you are the only adult in
your
> troop that has any concept about how things are supposed to run. It is
> certainly a good thing that others wish to be involved, but, and they need
to
> be told this, if they don't understand the program, the the adult
direction
> they offer will do more harm than good. As I see it you need to do the
> following in order to put things and keep things right:
>
> 1. Arrange an appointment with the Institutional Head of your Chartered
> Partner and your Charter Partner Representative. Explain your dilemma
> (tactfully), what you perceive your job is as Scoutmaster, and offer as a
> solution your vision for the troop.
>
> 2. Make it clear to any adult that seeks to be invasive on boy program
that
> you are the Scoutmaster and that as well-intentioned as their input is
met,
> they must first clear it with you to ensure that they are consistent with
> your vision. You can explain that the program falls under your
> responsibility, that you must by the definition of the title Scoutmaster
know
> everything that happens in the troop, and that you get the blame if they
foul
> it up. Encourage training for any adult that wishes to be involved,
pointing
> out that it will be easier for them to understand what you are trying to
do.
>
> 3. Make it clear to any adult, including the Charter Partner
Representative,
> that if they insist on usurping your authority, that you would happily
allow
> them to become Scoutmaster (watch how fast they back up). The Charter
Partner
> Representative certainly has the authority to do exactly what he has
stated
> to you in becoming an Assistant Scoutmaster and "cracking the whip". You
can
> point out to him that while his intent is good, you cannot agree with this
> action and that if he wishes to pursue it, he will instead find his time
> occupied with a Scoutmaster search.
>
> I fully understand the joys of Scoutmastering and why you would not wish
to
> give that up. It is improbable that anyone involved would want to
officially
> take over (although you never know for sure), so it will be likely that
your
> vision for the troop can go forward. If someone does step up to take the
job,
> let them have it. While they will make some blunders, that is a whole lot
> better than creating devisiveness in your troop. Eventually they will
either
> come around towards your way of thinking or they will tire themselves out
and
> you will be asked to fill the void again. Being "Scoutmaster" is not fun
> anymore when other adults impose their own agenda.
>
> As for fixing the program problems, all this will straighten itself out
once
> improper adult interference is eliminated. In the meantime, de-emphasize
the
> competitiveness of the upcoming camporee: tell your boys that your
> expectations do not necessarily include coming home with the First Place
> ribbon. Their objectives instead should be:
>
> 1. Do the very best they can do.
> 2. Learn as much as they can.
> 3. Live up to the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Motto and Slogan.
> 4. Most importantly -- have FUN!!
>
>
>
> Best of Luck,
>
> Fred Heilbrunn
> Scoutmaster, Troop 125
> Mount Vernon, WA
--part1_8cb6281a.25267f4f_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:36:12 -0700
Reply-To: Patrick Hummert
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Patrick Hummert
Subject: Looking for ideas for a "night-time" oder boy Camporee Program
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Recently, I was asked to oversee a camporee program
for older scouts in our District. This program will
start at 10:00p.m., having a two parts: First, a two
hour period of scout skills and team building
activities, followed by a "sleep out under the stars".
In talking with the involved scouts, we resolved most
of the details for the sleep out! However, we
continue to be blitzed by the other part! What we are
looking for are some "marching cadences" and team
builder activities that can be done at night. We
think these can be sandwiched inbetween a few skills
testing activies as we move across the camp. Please
send any ideas as I hope that the scouts planning this
program will be able to fill the whole two
hours!...thank you all in advance!
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:01:07 -0600
Reply-To: Gary Veik
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Gary Veik
Subject: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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There has been a lot of comments and complaints about ScoutNet 2000 here and it
has been interesting reading. And we all have the "answers" to the problem based
upon our individual experience and expertise. And, for the most part, we may
have the right solution. But do we have the information to base solutions on?
So I thought I would provide my 2 cents worth....
I would like to know what the original requirements state and all the
documentation that goes with it. Including detail design of software,
architecture design (including hardware and network), test plan, etc. Did the
original plans contain everything with expectations to work at a certain level or
were they 'assumed'? Did BSA expect the vendor(s) to provide the solution or did
BSA do the work? Were costs cut, where, and was the penalty understood (you get
what you pay for..). What about training material? Is it OK or is information
missing from the perspective of hardware requirements, software installation
process, user capability? What about support and is it in place? Alot of
questions and all we (at least those of us without any answers) can do is make
comments on the situation and provide our best guess solution.
What I also want to know, because I do not use it, is the application working at
all or is it just slow? Does it provide the information requested or not? Is it
easy to use or take some thought as you weave your way through the various
screens? Does it need to track additional information or is it tracking too
much? What about enhancements and is there a method to get these requests to
someone?
There is probably alot of talent and experience here that can help out in many
ways to resolve the situation and hopefully without a total reconfiguration of
everything. If there is someone at BSA National that wants some input, I am sure
we can step up to help. Maybe we can volunteer our efforts and, if needed,
recruit companies to step up and offer resources to help.
Just so you know where I am coming from........ My job in the telecommunications
industry with over 20+ years in the software development (writing code), network
configuration (design business office LANs/WANs), DBA, Lead Project Manager for
major software/hardware/building projects, application design (PC, mini and
mainframe), and the design of a dial-up solution for all telecommunication
companies to transmit data on a real-time and batch mode (including application
and hardware configuration).
--
Gary Veik
ASM - Troop 554, Littleton CO
Unit Commissioner - Denver Area Council
NSJ 1997 Nat'l Health & Safety
"I used to be a Bear. . . . "
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:36:53 -0500
Reply-To: "Ronald W. Fox"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Ronald W. Fox"
Subject: Re: Adult Training
X-To: John Peschken
In-Reply-To: <19991001153458.51797.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've encouraged leaders to go to training by:
Telling them what a good time I had, especially around the campfire after
the Scouts have gone to bed.
Introducing them to the trainers at Roundtables, District/Council events,
etc. You could even invite one of them to your Troop meeting or Leaders'
meeting.
When discussing a point of procedure (dealing with the PLC, etc.), refer to
your training as a reference to your opinion.
Tell them that the parent expect it.
Tell them that you need everyone trained because not all the leaders can
make all the meetings and outings so you need them to be trained to make
sure that there's always trained leaders around.
Good Luck!
mailto:ronfox@mindspring.com
Scoutmaster, Troop 69, Des Plaines Valley Council (W&SW Chicago Suburbs)
Pachsegink Lodge 246 | <------<<< |
"... and a good old Eagle, too" (C-19-96)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: "Ronald W. Fox"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Ronald W. Fox"
Subject: Adult Recognition
X-To: Evette Ogden
In-Reply-To: <003b01bf0c2f$7aab34e0$1d02100a@evettent.lscom.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:07 AM 10/1/99 -0700, Evette Ogden wrote:
>I made a special neckerchief slide and award it to the boys if their parents
>go to training. The response has been really great and the Pack has really
>benefited from "informed" parents/leaders. The boys enthusiastically
>motivate the parents to go so that they will get the tie slide, and we have
>had a lot more parents involved with our committee since this was
>implemented.
Which causes me to remark on a recognition we use in Pack 69. At the Blue
and Gold dinner every year, each new leader is awarded a Turk's Head
neckerchief slide made of blue and white macrame yarn (about 3/16" [9mm]
thick). I used that because they didn't have blue and gold. The adults
usually wear it pretty continuously from then on. The tradition I started
in 1992 is that the Cubmaster makes these as a personal item of
appreciation for the leaders. This has forced my successors to learn how
to tie a Turk's Head (hah!).
The Pack has also twice awarded the slide to others, for meritorious
service to the Pack. Once, it was given to Carol Rapacz, a double Wood
Badger in our Council, who stepped in at various times as Den Chief Coach
and Unit Commissioner when we were first re-starting the Pack in 1992 -
1994 and was a major factor in our ability to attract, train and keep new
leaders. It was also once awarded to a Scout, Travis Weaver. Travis, who
was a Webelos Scout, showed up at every meeting of the Wolf Den one year to
help his mother run it, and was very active. I told him at the time that
it was pretty unlikely that he'd ever see another Scout wearing that slide,
and so far I'm right.
mailto:ronfox@mindspring.com
Scoutmaster, Troop 69, Des Plaines Valley Council (W&SW Chicago Suburbs)
Pachsegink Lodge 246 | <------<<< |
"... and a good old Eagle, too" (C-19-96)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:52:12 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: Classes of Uniforms
X-To: Lynn R Oakleaf
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Lynn Oakleaf (what a last name; the Army and Air Force have "Oak Leaf
Clusters", small metal pins which attach to the ribbons of certain medals to
signify the earning of them twice or several more times than that, depending
on the number (and color) of clusters....) wrote and asked:
>I keep reading about Class A, Class B uniforms, etc Are they defined
anyplace in >BSA, or taken from the Arrmy? Not everyone was in the Army,
except for Major >Walton
And Major Walton first learned about "classes of uniforms" not from his
father nor the Army, but rather from *summer camp* as there were three
classes of uniforms worn at Camps Covered Bridge and Hazelwood, where I
served on camp staff at!
> so I would appreciate some guidance as to just what each Class is, but I
would >like to see this as a BSA guideline, not an Army guideline or Troop
guideline. Is >there official BSA guidance on what each class of uniform is?
Nope. Officially, the BSA says that there are "no such things" as "classes
of uniforms." Unofficially, there are lots of Councils using the "lettered
scheme" to inform Scouts and Scouters of what to wear when and why.
I have a webpage on the Unofficial Insignia and Uniform site that explains
it, taken from our discusssions here on Scouts-L. The page also explains
what the common-most breakdown between the various letters are although
local Councils are quick to change the breakdown for particular events and
activities.
The page is located at http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/abcd.htm
The site is located at http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/insignia.htm
Hope that helps out!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:15:39 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: CSE Photo...ID something please!
X-To: PATCH-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've had two Scouters to ask me a question I'm STILL trying to get an answer on!
If you open up the new Scout Handbook to page iii (that's three little
"i"s), you will see a warm photo of our Chief Scout Executive in front of an
American flag (he should be in front of the National Council's flag, but
this posting wasn't to run down the Chief's photo!)
He is wearing nine BSA square knots and two other awards from countries
outside the BSA. One of the awards is from Canada, the one on the right
side as looking at the photo. But what is that he's wearing on the left
side?? One person suggested that it was a military ribbon, but I don't
think so. I had a conversation with a professional back in the fall of last
year -- he told me that the Chief was getting an award from the Czech
government for his efforts in bringing back Scouting to areas in southern
Europe. Is that it?? Did he get a military-type medal with a ribbon to match it?
So, does anyone know?? Yeah, yeah, I've contacted the External
Communications Division, and all they could tell me is that it is an award
presented to the Chief from a foriegn country (okay, let's all say it
together: "DUH!" *heheheeheheheehe*). And I never received a written reply
back from the Office of the Chief Scout Executive in response to this question.
So....inquiring minds want to know.
If you know what it is, please post it here so that I can share it with
those Scouters whom asked.....thanks!
(Oh...and for those wanting to know the BSA awards the Chief Scout has
received or earned; from bottom to top:
Eagle, Silver and youth religious awards; Scouters' Training Award, Arrow of
Light, adult religious emblem; and OA Distinguished Service, Professional
Training Award and James West Fellowship. Jere is one of a dying breed: a
volunteer and youth member of all three programs before he became a career
member of the BSA)
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:09:22 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
X-To: Gary Veik , E-Scouts@listserv.tcu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gary Veik asked:
>There has been a lot of comments and complaints about ScoutNet 2000 here and it
>has been interesting reading. And we all have the "answers" to the problem
based
>upon our individual experience and expertise. And, for the most part, we may
>have the right solution. But do we have the information to base
solutions on?
>
>I would like to know what the original requirements state and all the
>documentation that goes with it.....
I really *hate* to be a traffic cop here, Gary....but may I make a
suggestion please??
For the past seven years, we've been running a very LOW VOLUME mailing list
to this one called "E-Scouts" (Electronic Scouting), in which we discuss
issues like this and others.
The list was originally set up so that all of us learning and using HTML
would not crowd up the Scouts-L area with discussion on frames versus plain,
which HTML standard we would write using, and what if anything does the BSA
think of webpages and websites and the World Wide Web itself.
If I'm not mistaken, some of the ideas for webrings and the US Scouting
Service Project originated with that group of Scouters.
As the list continued onward, we moved from discussions about how to do it
to what kinds of content would go onto our pages and sites. We shared URLs
with each other and freely gave out technical advice on how best to
incorporate Scouting into what we were experimenting and getting good at.
And we argued, both over there and here, about what kind of content is
suitable for websites featuring Scouts...can we add their ful names? how
about a directory of email addresses?
Then, ScoutNet2000 came along and we started to talk about it and how we
were going to at least offer to our Councils our experiences, expertise, and
training to help them get on their feet. Never mind that the BSA said
"thanks but no thanks" to most of us; and nevermind that many of our
Councils later gave the high sign a few years later and practically begged
us to help them develop some rules and tools and techniques for the
web-based technogies of the future. We still continued to share what we
knew with the others, who lent their work experiences to the cause of good
Scouting!
And Windows 95 versus Windows NT...and other things...the list comes and
goes, but it has been THE PLACE to talk technology and Scouting together!
To subscribe to E-Scouts, you send a posting to the unmanned listserver at TCU
(Texas Christian University, the same host as Scouts-L); the address is
listserv@listserv.tcu.edu
... and tell it in the body of your posting to SUB E-SCOUTS firstname
lastname...where "firstname lastname" is your true first and last name.
I know the topic has a lot of appeal to "wonks" like myself...can we *peas*
move it over there, where we won't bore the other 2000 or so of us over here!!
Gary...by the way, you make some great points about SN2K! Gotta go watch
"Nash Bridges" with the spouse!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:33:28 -0400
Reply-To: Win Quakenbush
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Win Quakenbush
Subject: Scouting $ article-irony
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello, the list!
Just got my October issue of "Scouting". The cover article is on
money-earning projects. Two things struck me:
1. Although the article is very careful to point out that uniforms can be
worn only during council-sponsored money-earning activities (which around
here means, popcorn, PERIOD), the cover shows both a generic candy sale
and a dog-walking service by Scouts in class A.
2. Dick Schmidt, associate director of the BSA's Finance Support
Division, is quoted as saying, "If a unit doesn't get about half the
proceeds from each sale, our advice is not to bother with it and look for
something else." We sure don't get to keep half the money from popcorn.
Just observing......
Win Quakenbush Scoutmaster
Troop 794 Buies Creek, NC
quakenb@camel.campbell.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:51:16 -0400
Reply-To: Rod Smith
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Rod Smith
Subject: Roundtable help
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I am responsible for this month's roundtable on Scouting Internet
resources. I have quite a few web pages identified but would appreciate
input as to what your favorite site is. I would be interested in any
Scouting lists like Scouts-L also.
Please email me privately. Once I compile a list, I will make it available
to the list.
Thanks
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:15:23 EDT
Reply-To: StrawThun@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: StrawThun@AOL.COM
Subject: please remove
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Dear Sirs:
Please remove my name, StrawThun@aol.com from your e-mail list. I get lots
of information, but lately find myself deleting most of it. Thank you!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:53:03 -0400
Reply-To: Norman Turrill
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Norman Turrill
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
X-cc: E-Scouts
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< Mike Walton wrote:>
< I know the topic has a lot of appeal to "wonks" like myself...can
< we *peas* move it over there [to E-Scouts], where we won't bore 2000 or
< the other so of us over here!!
With some apprehension, I would like to partially disagree with Mike Walton.
There is a part of the Scoutnet 2000 discussion that should move to
E-Scouts. That is the discussion of the technology, design, 2nd guessing
the requirements and specifications, implementation strategy, etc. I would
dearly like to participate in this discussion and to know more about
Scoutnet 2000 at this level. I apparently joined E-Scouts and Scouts-L
after Scoutnet 2000 was well under way and these discussions had passed.
(Can anyone point me (on E-Scouts (:-) ) to more information about Scoutnet
2000?)
However, we who are more technically inclined, can do a real service to the
general Scouting community in Scouts-L by helping everyone understand
Scoutnet 2000 while it is beginning to be implemented and used by the
end-users. From the few comments on Scoutnet 2000's performance and
features, I can anticipate the transition, from the old way of doing
business to the new, will be rough. No one likes change. But we can ease
the transition by a Scouting spirit of Helpful, Courteous and Kind.
YiS,
Norman Turrill
ASM and Advancement Chair, Troop 203, Keystone Area Council
Hyas Skaha (The Raven)
--------------
Norman Turrill email: nturrill@netrax.net
voicemail: 717-531-4435 (office) or 717-534-2709 (home)
snailmail: 30 Hill Manor Drive, Hershey PA 17033
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:43:51 -0600
Reply-To: Rik Bergethon
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Rik Bergethon
Subject: Scouting and Comparitive Religion
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After reading Jay Lenrow's posting about his experience in
Scouts, it brought back memories of my bad scouting
experience and my son's good scouting e xperience. I was
raised a Presbyterian, and went to the Troop at our church.
It was a dud troop, not doing much, except praying and
playing basketball. A couple of my good friends went to the
Methodist troop, that met across the street at the Methodist
church. I asked Mom if I could join my friends' troop and
have some fun, she said no, that's a "Methodist Troop, we're
Presbyterians." I dropped out of Scouts soon after.
I married an Irish Catholic girl, and changed to the
Catholic church. When our son was in Cubs, he earned the
Parvuli Dei award, then the Ad Altari Dei award for Boy
Scouts. His instructor for the Pope Pius X award
(supposedly for Explorers, but now just used for older Boy
Scouts) thought that his sutdents should learn about other
religions. We all went to a Jewish Synagog, then a service,
met with a Muslim foreign exchange student, a Family from
India (one of our other scout's parents), a Jappanese
community member, and a Budist Nun. Each of the scouts came
away with a memento of each religion, and learned a lot
about how each religion works and what it believes and
teaches. The only reason we did not go to a Mormon service,
here in Pueblo there are a lots of Mormons, including some
Mormon boys in our troop, and they pretty much already knew
about the Mormon religious beliefs.
Now what a difference Scouting has made to our children!
BTW, my Eagle Scout is now out in the world, working, and
earning more money than I do. And, I hope, being more
tolerant of other religions than my mother was.
Unforntunately, that Associate Pastor has now left our
Church and is no longer here to teach scouts about other
religions. Our parish was the only parish in this Diocese
turning out Scouts with all three Catholic religious
awards. He and his work with scouts will be missed.
Rik Bergethon
Pueblo,CO
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 07:04:50 -0700
Reply-To: Patrick Hummert
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Patrick Hummert
Subject: Looking for ideas for a "night-time" oder boy Camporee Program
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Still looking for ideas....please read on:
Thanks,
Pat
Recently, I was asked to oversee a camporee program
for older scouts in our District. This program will
start at 10:00p.m., having a two parts: First, a two
hour period of scout skills and team building
activities, followed by a "sleep out under the stars".
In talking with the involved scouts, we resolved most
of the details for the sleep out! However, we
continue to be blitzed by the other part! What we are
looking for are some "marching cadences" and team
builder activities that can be done at night. We
think these can be sandwiched inbetween a few skills
testing activies as we move across the camp. Please
send any ideas as I hope that the scouts planning this
program will be able to fill the whole two
hours!...thank you all in advance!
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:03:30 -0600
Reply-To: Rik Bergethon
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Rik Bergethon
Subject: Re: a soutmaster's dilemma
X-To: Jon_A._Handwerk@FIRSTENERGYCORP.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
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John, I am sure you will get tons of responses on the list
and personally. Here are my two cents worth.
1) Have the PLC do an Annual Troop Planning session.
There are video tapes, booklets, etc. on this. If you plan
out the whole year, then you take it to the Committee, have
them "buy into it" and then they can't change it.
2) Make sure anybody who is serving on the committee
gets Scoutmaster Fundamentals. There they will learn the
importance of the PLC and how the troop is run. Then the
members will be less likely to interfere with the plan.
3) I am curious how the Charter Organization's
Representative's wife got involved. Is she on the
committee? Is she a registered adult? If not, you have the
right to keep her out of the sessions. You could have told
her upon her arrival: "thanks, but the boys have the meeting
planned out tonight. Why don't you bring your idea to the
next PLC meeting and we'll see when they can fit it into the
schedule."
4) Let the CR know he cannot be an assistant until he
takes Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Then see what he does.
He'll either put up or shut up.
As I see your dilemma here. You are trained, nobody
else is. If they were, they'd realize the importance of the
PLC, the Annual Troop Plan and the Committee's support, not
the Committee running the troop. But don't forget the most
important thing...the Scoutmaster serves at the pleasure of
the committee and the Charter Organization. Be firm, but
don't piss them off, they may fire you!
Rik Bergethon
Pueblo, CO
rberg@rmi.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:00:39 -0000
Reply-To: Anthony Mako
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Anthony Mako
Subject: Re: another update on Scoutnet 2000 aghhhhhh
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I am forwarding part of a message I received from a friend for those of you
trying to deal with council computer issues and Scoutnet 2000. I have been
told BSA might have been better with a Microsoft SQL Server, but what do I
know, I work on a Mac.
>BSA has met with Oracle to resolve this problem but with no response. The
server does not keep the data separate by councils. Therefore, it serches
the entire data base for every entry of names.<
As a computer programmer, let me say this:
Field Testing and Debugging do not usually find all of the problems. In
fact, some problems found during debugging or field testing a system crop up
again when the system is finally released. There is also a period of
familiarization the operators go through. First the operators have to read
and understand whatever documentation is available, then they need to
practice. Eventually, everything is worked out and the system becomes useful
and easy to use.
While we (those of us who are programmers or MIS folks) could debate the
good and bad points of [insert favorite database system here], it does
little to resolve our concerns. Yes, there are problems with ScoutNet 2K,
and I feel sure they will eventually be fixed. Until that time, we Scouters
will have to be patient. At some point the new system will be as efficient
and easy to use as the old system (probably more so).
YIS
A. J. Mako, ajmako@nls.net , Scoutmaster Troop 381
Home of the Unofficial Win95 Boy Scout Desktop Theme,
http://www.Scouts381.org/
Old Portage District, Great Trail Council, BSA
http://www.scouts381.org/gtcbsa/ (unofficial)
"I used to be an Eagle (C-7-97), but I'll always be an Eagle (1981)"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:40:49 -0600
Reply-To: Gary Veik
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Gary Veik
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
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"(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)" wrote:
> To subscribe to E-Scouts, you send a posting to the unmanned listserver at TCU
> (Texas Christian University, the same host as Scouts-L); the address is
>
> I know the topic has a lot of appeal to "wonks" like myself...can we *peas*
> move it over there, where we won't bore the other 2000 or so of us over here!!
Thanks Mike... I did not realize this place existed so will join accordingly. I
only identified questions based upon what was stated by others and by what was known
(or unknown). I will *squash* my conversations on the topic here and move to the
new location.
I guess that you are possibly suggesting that ALL discussions on SN2K be held at
E-Scouts and not here?
YIS
Gary Veik
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:01:49 -0600
Reply-To: The Young Family
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: The Young Family
Subject: Leadership games
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I got a great book from the library recently. It is titled "Leadership
Games" by Stephen S. Kaagan Publisher is SAGE and isbn # 0-7619-1721-7
1. Ways of Thinking About Leadership Development
2. Cueing the Exercises
3. Exercises on Risking Innovation
4. Exercisies on Fostering Collaboration
5. Exercisies on Managing Conflict
6. Exercisies on Using Diversity
7. The Exercisies in Play: A Story of Real Organizational Change
8.Conclusion
Each chapter of exercises has about six different games. Most require
very little preperation or equipment but seem to get the point across.
YIS Jackie Young doublefox@yucca.net
I used to be a Double Fox and a Staffer too.
(SC-111,Walking WB-2 at Philmont and SC-Cub WB-3)
When you are in the service of your fellow man,
you are in the service of your God.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:49:06 -0400
Reply-To: Bruce_Mccrea@LANSING.CC.MI.US
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Bruce_Mccrea@LANSING.CC.MI.US
Subject: 1910 BSA handbook on ebay
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Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In what must be a record price for a BSA handbook, a 1910 hardbound version, two
author, BSA handbook just sold on ebay for $6400.00. If you would like to copy
a jpg scan of that handbook, go to
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170469166
Bruce McCrea
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 03:00:37 +0800
Reply-To: "stssing@singnet.com.sg"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "stssing@singnet.com.sg"
Subject: adults at PLC
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Hi everyone,
We've gotten off to a good start over here in Singapore, with about 70
boys in the Troop and a few new eager ASMs. We have a very gung-ho SPL,
and one of his first decisions was to hold PLC's during the afternoon
after school, so no adults can attend. We have had the SM and at least
one ASM at all PLC's for the past few years. The first PLC had only 4
boys attending (should have been at least 10); the scribe wasn't one of
them, so there were no notes, and so we're not really sure what they
did.
Are there any requirements for SMs to be at PLCs? What is the general
procedure?
TIA,
Tawnya Hartberger
Committee Chair
Troop 07, Singapore
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:27:39 -0400
Reply-To: "Michael F. Bowman"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Michael F. Bowman"
Subject: FW: Roundtable help
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Rod,
Stop by at http://usscouts.org/internet/ for some great resources on
Internet Scouting. We even have a prepared presentation that you can use or
borrow from for your roundtable.
Mike
Mike Bowman, Vice President
U.S. Scouting Service Project, Inc.
Website: http://usscouts.org
E-Mail: mfbowman@usscouts.org
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:48:06 -0700
Reply-To: The Hammons family
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From: The Hammons family
Organization: Los Angeles Unified School District
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing policy Troop 28
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Joel;
I believe there are two issues here. One is what is appropriate for the
outing and Two is what is appropriate for policy and coverage by BSA
insurance. Our troop has adopted a policy that the Trek leader defines
the proper attire while in the field e.g. visit a military base, full
uniform, Camporee, same thing, Bike outing, Proper Biking gear,
Backpack, Sturdy but comfortable, Whitewater, Clothing to get wet or
wetsuits plus changes, Work days and Eagle projects, work clothes but
traveling to and from each event if not using parent dropoff at the
event,. Scout shirts. As It generally produces some kind of deal when we
stop along the way, the boys support it all the way and the adult
leaders do too.
Phil Hammons
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 19:02:41 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
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From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: adults at PLC
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Hey Tawnya!
You wrote and asked us all:
>Are there any requirements for SMs to be at PLCs? What is the general
>procedure?
The basic requirement is that either the Scoutmaster or someone the
Scoutmaster appoints serves as Advisor to the Patrol Leaders' Council (PLC)
and as a non-voting member of the PLC. The Scoutmaster should attend, as
the "coach/counsellor" to the Senior Patrol Leader; but clearly, if the
Scoutmaster cannot attend, he or she should appoint someone to take the
place of the Scoutmaster and give a bit of adult guidance.
"A bit of adult guidance." NOT to run the meeting, or to constantly
interrupt the Senior Patrol Leader -- even with "advice." Do that AFTER the
meeting with the Senior Patrol Leader by himself. Look at this way: you
don't want some OLDER person "beating you up" during YOUR meeting, or
"grandstanding" during the meeting YOU planned, coordinated and got people
to come to....so the same bit of courtsey should be extended to the leader
of the Troop.
Of course, if there's health, safety or policy issues which are contrary to
what the Senior Patrol Leader or other leaders....then that Scouter's
responsibility is to place a "stopo, changeo!" to the discussion and
decisions...right then and there. That's why a Scoutmaster is to be present
at each meeting.
Remind them that the PLC meetings, like all meetings in Scouting, are "open
door" and any adult or youth member can attend as well as parents of the
youth of the Troop and people from the community at large. It is NOT a
"club meeting."
But remember, Tawyna, the Senior Patrol Leader IS the leader of the
Troop...and therefore, his success and the Troop's success is going to
depend on the way he's perceived by the rest of the boys in the Troop. If
he's perceived as "just a mouthpiece for the Scoutmaster" or the Troop's
Committee, only those things that those adults wants to get done or done in
the way the adults want it...will be accomphished by the Troop. But if the
youth are challenged to take leadership - real leadership - then your PLC
will gain some confidence and will take less to manage. And the rest of
your Troop's programming will be that much better overall...because there
won't be "contention in the ranks."
Hope this helps out! It sounds like you're got a great start going!!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 19:22:20 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
X-To: Norman Turrill , E-Scouts@listserv.tcu.edu
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Norman Turrill has a point...a great one!!:
I stated on Scouts-L earlier:
>< I know the topic has a lot of appeal to "wonks" like myself...can
>< we *peas* move it over there [to E-Scouts], where we won't bore 2000 or
>< the other so of us over here!!
And Norman replied with:
>With some apprehension, I would like to partially disagree with Mike Walton.
>
>There is a part of the Scoutnet 2000 discussion that should move to
>E-Scouts. That is the discussion of the technology, design, 2nd guessing
>the requirements and specifications, implementation strategy, etc. I would
>dearly like to participate in this discussion and to know more about
>Scoutnet 2000 at this level. I apparently joined E-Scouts and Scouts-L
>after Scoutnet 2000 was well under way and these discussions had passed.
>(Can anyone point me (on E-Scouts (:-) ) to more information about Scoutnet
>2000?)
I'm in the process of copying the entire thread over there (here) from Scouts-L
so that everyone subscribed will have some background as to the discussion.
So, in advance, I apologize to those whom like myself are members of both
groups as they will receive duplicate postings to their email box later this
evening.
>However, we who are more technically inclined, can do a real service to the
>general Scouting community in Scouts-L by helping everyone understand
>Scoutnet 2000 while it is beginning to be implemented and used by the
>end-users. From the few comments on Scoutnet 2000's performance and
>features, I can anticipate the transition, from the old way of doing
>business to the new, will be rough. No one likes change. But we can ease
>the transition by a Scouting spirit of Helpful, Courteous and Kind.
I'm all for transition, if it's going to help out the program to be a little
more effective....but there are several elements of the new ScoutNet 2000
system that really bothers me.....and I'm sure that it bothers other Scouters.
The biggest thing is that local Councils will no longer keep local copies of
anything.
Under the system, paper reduction is one of the keys...and Goodness knows,
I'm ALL for paper reduction (a causal look around my officeroom will reveal
that I need a little "ScoutNet 2000" here!! *smile*). But one of the many
things I enjoyed about the way the BSA was structured was that there was
"built in redunancy".
A Scouter needing advancement information on a Scout that previously was a
member of his or her Troop can go to four sources: the unit; the local
Council Service Center; the serving Regional Service Center; and the
National Registration Service. One of those four will have at least ONE
copy of the advancement information in a format that can be taken back home.
Now, that same Scouter only really has TWO sources: the unit, until the BSA
decides to do away with the Advancement Report form which has served the BSA
since 1914; and the local Council, which will be wired to the Region and to
National through ScoutNet 2000. A few taps on the keyboard and....whoops.
That was BEFORE ScoutNet was implemented in our Council. And National told
us a while back to get rid of our paper files. So we did. Nothing was kept,
and they didn't have a "Mike Walton" type to tell or advise them to "keep a
copy of everything because you never know when you'll need it!"
So, you can see that some old-timers like myself are a bit cautious about
this new system, which should make registration and advancement
verifications faster and easier....and will help do a lot of the "number
crunching" currently being done by professionals and the Registrar.
I do agree that the discussion on what it can do or potentially can do to
support us should continue here (there) on Scouts-L, Norman...but the
technical end of things as to it's components and how it is all supposed to
work should be moved over (only in MY opinion, gang!) to another forum
whereby we can talk about in scope of how many frame relays it will take,
and the amount of cabling that a typical Council office is going to
need...and whether or not the current package which is based on Win NT is
too much for the end users...and (see, I told those folks over at Scouts-L
that we would be boring them with our "wonk technical weenie talk!" They
want to talk about Scouting...not frame relay packets! *heheheeheheheee*)
Thanks, Norman, for helping to "frame" the discussion -- both here (or is it
there?)
at E-Scouts as well as over there (here?) at Scouts-L!!
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 19:06:20 -0600
Reply-To: Gary Veik
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From: Gary Veik
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
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"(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)" wrote:
> I do agree that the discussion on what it can do or potentially can do to
> support us should continue here (there) on Scouts-L, Norman...but the
> technical end of things as to it's components and how it is all supposed to
> work should be moved over (only in MY opinion, gang!) to another forum
> whereby we can talk about in scope of how many frame relays it will take,
> and the amount of cabling that a typical Council office is going to
> need...and whether or not the current package which is based on Win NT is
> too much for the end users...
>
I agree with Mike on this point as it is important to seperate the "business" side
of things from the "technical" points. The only concern I have is what is creating
a workable product - the users or the technicians? Developing a great technical
solution with minimal input from what the users want has a tendency to create a
product that is great to support, but lousy for the users. Having a business
solution in place, with the needs of the majority of users supported, can be
developed into a solution that technology can support. The major drawback, and
there are always drawbacks, is the the cost. BSA cannot fund the 'ultimate'
solution that meets everyone's needs, so there has to be compromises everywhere.
I am rambling and I apologize but my point is that there should be a technical
discussion and a user discussion and they should be seperated as Mike suggests. I
also wonder if there is anything we can really do other than talk about something
we cannot change. If all we can do is talk about it without effecting change, then
I will not say anymore and let it go. If we can work with BSA to continually
improve the system, than I am willing to help where I can.
We all need to remember not to 'blame' anyone for what is there. Just how can we
all work together for continuous improvement.
--
Gary Veik
ASM - Troop 554, Littleton CO
Unit Commissioner - Denver Area Council
NSJ 1997 Nat'l Health & Safety
"I used to be a Bear. . . . "
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:11:44 EDT
Reply-To: JoelMarc@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Joel Korczynski
Subject: The Great Uniform Debate Tally
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I saved all replies to a Word file. I tried to upload it to the group but it
failed. I f anyone would like to read them all, as I said they are in a Word
document. Email me directly and I will email it to you directly. Sorry, I
tried to do it the easy way. Joel
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:21:48 -0500
Reply-To: dave beaver
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From: dave beaver
Subject: Re: adults at PLC
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> Remind them that the PLC meetings, like all meetings in Scouting, are "open
> door" and any adult or youth member can attend as well as parents of the
> youth of the Troop and people from the community at large. It is NOT a
> "club meeting."
Mike, I guess I've being steering folks the wrong way. Could you point
me to some B.S.A. sources on this point? Does this policy extend to
"adult" as well as "youth" meetings? Does this only apply at the "unit"
level and "patrol" level, or does it also apply at the district, council
and national level?
If what you say is true, then it would seem B.S.A. does stand for
BabySitters of America. All this stuff about a Scout being trustworthy
is apparently hogwash. What my Scouts believe is a fraud. What I
believe is a fraud.
It seems I need to ask the Good Lord for some guidance. Apparently, I'm
in the wrong organization. Apparently, he is too.
YIS,
Dave Beaver
Scoutmaster
Mud Dogs 54
DeSoto, Kansas
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 23:24:17 EDT
Reply-To: DSearstoni@AOL.COM
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From: David Edward Sears
Subject: Re: adults at PLC
X-To: stssing@singnet.com.sg
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Tawnya,
>From my experiences.
The Patrol Leaders and PLC of the different Troops that I have served
with, usually invited parents and leaders to attend. The Senior Patrol
Leader was always good leader, but the PLC occasionally came to a halt during
brainstorming. The Patrol Leaders had many creative ideas, but sometimes did
not know exactly how to see their ideas through.
The adults would only offer advise in normally one of two ways. First
was regarding safety, and our reference was the Guide to Safe Scouting. The
Second was to find an appropriate counselor for a particular event. We did
this by refering to the council's merit badge counselor listing.
Unfortunately, this list was occasionally out of date, so the leader would
break out the trusted yellow (business) pages of the local telephone company.
The Senior Patrol Leader would normally conduct the liaison between the
troop and the business. Many different businesses (most do relate to the
merit badge list) have a public relations department. The business
representatives were normally glad to sign an BSA adult application, and be
recognized as a council merit badge counselor.
For the most part, the PLC was eager to do the job, but on occasion
needed some direction. If the PLC will invite you, my advice is just to sit
there with a Guide to Safe Scouting, a Meritbadge listing, and a phonebook.
YIS
Dave Sears
NE-VI-19
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 23:35:13 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: adults at PLC
X-To: dave beaver
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Hi Dave:
You wrote in response to my comments about the nature of the PLC (Patrol
Leaders' Council) meetings:
>> Remind them that the PLC meetings, like all meetings in Scouting, are "open
>> door" and any adult or youth member can attend as well as parents of the
>> youth of the Troop and people from the community at large. It is NOT a
>> "club meeting."
with:
>Mike, I guess I've being steering folks the wrong way. Could you point
>me to some B.S.A. sources on this point?
Sure! Let's start with the unit-level, as in Boy Scout level because that's
what my
comments were specially aimed at:
Page 48 in the recent Scoutmaster's Handbook speaks of the composition of
the PLC...and states that "...sometimes other boy leaders are invited to sit
in when their areas of expertise are likely to be discussed." (The current
Scoutmasters' Handbook makes no mention of this)
>From the BSA's Youth Protection Policies: "There are no "secret"
organizations recognized by the BSA. All aspects of the Scouting program are
open to observation by interested parents, leaders and community members."
And " Adult leaders must monitor and guide the leadership techniques used by
junior leaders and see that the BSA policies are followed."
>From the BSA's Administration Manual, under "meetings and activities": "All
meetings and activities, with the exception of those specifically addressing
personnel or professional matters only, are open to any interested
registered leader, community member, United Way official, or chartered
organizational representative or head. The Boy Scouts of America maintains
that no "secret" or "exclusionary" meetings nor activities are performed as
part of any unit, district or local Council operation."
>Does this policy extend to "adult" as well as "youth" meetings?
It *should apply* to all meetings, Dave.
>Does this only apply at the "unit" level and "patrol" level, or does it
also apply at >the district, council and national level?
It should again apply across the board. In reality, it doesn't. For
instance, while the meetings of the BSA's National Executive Board are open
for any Scouter to observe, very seldom do BSA volunteers other than those
Board members participate. Also, since the dates of the NEB aren't
"regularlly annouced", most Scouters don't even get to participate.
However, volunteer Scouters are encouraged to participate in the various
meetings held during the BSA's National Meetings held around the nation.
On the local Council level, most Councils have an "open door policy" with
regard to the Council Executive Board meetings; the only time those meetings
are closed to non-Board members are when issues concerning professional
members (selection, hiring, promotion, transfer, removal) and concerning
individual Scouters (decision on awards, removal of membership confirmation,
etc.) are involved. In reality, some meetings have been posponed or moved
elsewhere when there was a possibility that someone was attending "just to
make noise" about an issue or policy.
>If what you say is true, then it would seem B.S.A. does stand for
>BabySitters of America. All this stuff about a Scout being trustworthy
>is apparently hogwash. What my Scouts believe is a fraud. What I
>believe is a fraud.
There's a BIG DIFFERENCE, Dave, between "Baby sitting" and "Advising." We
adults are in the "advising business." One of my frequent saying here with
regard to what we do as adults is that as adults we make sure that the youth
members don't burn down the building, hack or cut each other's or their own
fingers or toes off, and don't create a situation whereby other youth
members are put off, ashamed, or afriad to be there. Mostly, what we do is
observe, offer advice, and drink warm or cold non-alcoholic beverages while
talking to our peers about the personal growth of our youth members. That's
what we do. That's NOT "babysitting" no matter how intense the situation
gets.
As a former Scoutmaster, I've never towered over my Scouts and "daring" them
to do something stupid. I've got no time to do stuff like that....I'm busy
meeting with other adults to get them to come with me to various activities
that the boys dreamed up. I'm meeting with my Senior Patrol Leader and
reminding him constantly that "he's the man" and I just "carry the big stick
around for him." I'm meeting with new parents whom always insist that "I
shouldn't be taking the time to be with them...don't I have to teach those
boys something or another?? You ARE the Scoutmaster of these boys, right?"
I'm also constantly filling my coffeemug, going to the boys' room, and every
once in a while (between the trips to the break room and the coffeepot, and
between meeting with individual Scouts and with parents and committeemembers
and my Assistant Scoutmasters.....), I'll look in to insure that nobody's
hurt or injured, nobody has a body part missing (though it's really hard to
see missing brains!!), and nobody has intimidated, mistreated nor harmed
another individual. After a while, you blend in and are only out when they
TRULY NEED YOU (or when they ask you to be out there!)
We have an obligation to our chartered partners, to the parents of our youth
and to the youth themselves to protect them and give them ideas on which
they can then carry out and perform "good Scouting" by. The obligation to
protect youth comes from our being adults and wanting those youth to become
adults. Sitting in on their meetings, Dave, is part of teaching them that
there are boundaries at the same time allowing them to use us as "sounding
and reference boards" for their ideas. That's NOT a "babysitting role"
whatsoever, if one uses those times to listen, understand and work with
those youth in leadership positions as they learn to negotiate, make
tradeoffs, make hard decisions and to understand the concept of "resource
management." Youth cannot teach youth those concepts...those concepts have
to be shared between adult and youth, which is why the BSA's pairing of
youth leaders to adult advisors is so important and why it works very
effectively.
As far as adult meetings are concerned, the idea that we hold meetings in a
vaccumm
has NEVER been a part of the BSA. One of the many things that separated the
BSA from all of its competitors over the (earlier) years was the idea that
ANYONE can come to a District or Council meeting, pitch an idea for "the
Scouts to do" and receive an answer without a lot of bureaucratic red tape
and endless looping runarounds. Today (in my own opinion), we've added too
many layers to get things done and many adults IN our programs are
frustrated because what seems to be (and IS!) a simple "either you want to
do this or not!" process has turned into a multilayered tasking to go
through several areas before a final decision can be given.
And those adults OUTSIDE our program don't even try anymore. "Too much like
asking Ford Motor Company for the usage of some of their employees for a car
show!"
Again, part of the idea of Scouting the teaching of representative democracy
and citizenship. We can't teach this to our youth if we run our
organizations as large multinational corporations.....instead of small, town
council meetings whereby those whom have a "beef" with the way things are
running can approach, speak their piece, and get at least a half-baked
answer why this is so.
Someone told me once "a half-baked answer is better than none at all..."
No, Dave, we're NOT "Babysitters of America." We're teaching our youth the
principles of leadership and citizenship in a very practical manner. And it
takes us, the adult volunteer and in particular the Scoutmaster as the
"coach/counsellor" of the Senior Patrol Leader, to effectively teach by
example and experience those priniciples so that when the youth becomes an
adult, he can better manage and lead larger amounts of individuals in any
setting under any set of circumstances.
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
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Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:00:37 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: [Reflection] "Boy Scouts!"
X-To: Embers@dynapolis.com
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"Boy Scouts!"
(to be included in "Eagle Feathers" (c) Mike Walton )
Ever sit in a resturant somewhere, or maybe on the bus going home from work
or school, or maybe on an airplane....and some part of a conversation
piequed your ears enough to eavesdrop on the conversation?
We all have "magic words" which somehow forces our brains to "turn on" our
ears and whether we like it or not, to make us listen to parts or the entire
conversation.
Those scientists and all call such reactions "autonomic responses."
For my Jessiann, it's anything with the word "Jesus" or "God" in the
conversation.
People can be swearing up a storm, and Jessi will just continue onward with
whatever it was she was doing...but let someone start out with "God..." or
say "Jesus!" or His full name, "Jesus Christ!", and all of sudden she's got
to stop and look at what fool is making the Man Upstairs take them off His
holiday card list!
It is then usually accompanied by some sort of crossed, mean look at the
individual, or if it's on TV, she'll try to mute their voices before they
finish the rest of their rantings. We talked about that one evening, with
her mother present.
"You know, people in prison don't say, "Now gosh darn it, why did you let
that man do that to you?", which doesn't excuse what they say...but the show
has to be somewhat real or we wouldn't see it now." No prude she is...but
it does bother her.
For me, it's either the word "Army" or the phrase "Boy Scout," as in
"There's an army of them out there..." or "That man is a real boy scout." I
lose all concentration in either case -- unless of course, I'm around Army
or Scout people.
There was a movie called "The Last Boy Scout," starring Bruce somebody or
another...everytime the commercial came on, I had to literally stop what I
was doing to see the trailer and hear the booming voice (which by the way,
was that same voice that told me that "Drew Carey's coming up next right
here on ABC!" or, "Dateline will return right after these messages from your
local station) say after the last explosion "Now Showing at Theaters
Everywhere!"
It never bothered me that the man was the same voiceover king that did all
kinds of promotionals for all three major networks, several movie companies,
and even for two or three cable networks. But let that man say "The Last
Boy Scout" or "Is he a Boy Scout?" or "Can Boy Scouts survive?", and buddy,
I'm right there in front of the set!
A while back, I was working a temporary job, creating forms for a local
insurance company. It was tedious work, demanding work, but not hard work.
Most days, it would be me and several jazz artists, their music pumped into
my head through a set of headphones connected to the jack on the CD-ROM
drive of the firm's computer, as I converted their insurance policy forms
from whatever it was they were using prior to Mr. Gates' Windows software
and "cut and paste" to the latest version of his Word wordprocessing and
try-to-be-desktop-publisher program.
On this particular day, however, I forgot my headphones -- was in too much
of a rush to bring my headphones and music to work -- and so I was forced to
try to tune out the various discusions and small talk among the permanent
employees in the section while I typed and moved the mouse around the pad to
create mirror electronic copies of paper forms.
One of the employees there was a single mother named Lynn. She had a
teenage boy that played running back for a junior high football team.
Lynn's cubicle was next to mine and as my "supervisor," she frequently gave
me design work to complete and was surprized when I had it completed by the
end of that day.
Lynn was talking to one of her peers about her family's plans for the
weekend on this day, and filling this person in on the actvities of the last
week or so. Her voice drifted off into the background as she talked about
flower pots, a new backporch that some guy she was dating named Paul was
supposed to work on but he never showed up to do the work....and dating
stuff. Then, I envisioned the person on the other end tiring of the
conversation so far and asked about her son, Dean.
"Dean's great. Their team is like second or third in the district. His coach
is complaining that he's not heavy enough...god, Jenny...the boy's eating me
outta house and home as it is! He's also doing Boy Scouts again this year..."
My brain instantly ignored every other sound in the room...and concentrated
on the voice on the other side of the cubicle.
"He got three or four of those badges still to earn for the next step up,"
Lynn told the person on the other side of the phone. ".... all I know is
that he's in Boy Scouts, and they got those badges to earn. I think one of
them is in Personal Life or Fitness or something like that...I just take the
kid to the meetings and to those things with the counsellors. He's working
on some of those badges with some snotty kid called "Piledriver." Yeah,
that's what Dean calls him....some kid living about three or four blocks
down the street from us. But I've gotta tell you about what happened the
week before last with Dean and the Scouts..."
I was all ears. Impolite as it was, Lynn had my curiousity going in high
gear. She continued talking to the woman named Jenny on the other end of her
telephone.
"I took him out to one of those big campouts....Camporall, something like
that...lots of Boy Scouts running around saluting and wearing the uniforms
and all. Really big wingding....anyways...yeah, for the whole weekend.
Anyways, Sunday I go and pick him up, right? No...I had a breakfast date
and I went right afterwards."
and I was thinking "And...and...", motioning my hands to somehow make her go
faster with the story. Good thing she -- nor anyone else -- could see me
motion with my hands. I'm sure I looked like I was swatting flies.
"Well, I get there and pick Dean up. For the first like, twenty miles down
the road, he's not saying a word. I mean nothing! I didn't know if he got
into trouble and didn't want to tell me about it, or that he was mad because
I was late getting there...yeah..I apologized....no, I didn't want to say
anything....but get this!"
"We get about halfway home, now, and he breaks out and starts tuning up to cry!
I had to pull the car over on 169 and ask him what was wrong! Here is this
big kid, crying...he said he had NEVER had a better time with the Scouts and
he didn't want to leave! He had ME crying....I guess that Boy Scout stuff
really is good for him. I swear, Jenny...the kid couldn't stop talking about
the things he did and how he was a leader in this or something like a
program. Yeah, I hugged him.....he kept saying something like he wanted to
keep doing Scouts after he earned Eagle. I don't know what that is. Some
badge he's been working toward."
I did. Something told me that her son is going to make some Eagle Scout. I
smiled as I continued to listen in on the conversation.
"I just couldn't get over that. I asked why he was crying. He didn't know.
My guess is that -- you know how you have such a great time that you don't
know how to express it?? He must of had such a great time out there in the
woods and camping out and doing whatever those Boy Scouts did out there,
that he didn't know how to tell me other than to cry about it!"
Jenny changed the topic again, and they went back to talking their "gal
talk" and finally Lynn told Jenny that she would "talk with her later" and
hung the phone up.
And I had yet another success story to share with Scouters.
So, if you want MY attention, just say the words "Boy Scouts." "Army" works
too, but I don't respond to that in quite the same way as I would "Boy Scouts."
See....
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
blackeagle@SCOUTER.net or blkeagles@hotmail.com
professional inquiries via waltonmi@usarc-emh2.army.mil
-----FORWARD in service to youth and the nation-----
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:08:55 CDT
Reply-To: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "(MAJ) Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)"
Subject: Re: symbol for "scout gone home"
X-To: Embers@dynapolis.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Scott!!
As several others have already mentioned, the trail marking sign of a circle
with a dot in the center of it represents "(I have) gone home."
As illustrated below, when I was growing up, it meant two distinct things to
me as taught by two Scouters. One taught the literal meaning; the other
took it to a higher level. Both are correct in their explaination.
Gone Home
(taken from "Patches and Pins...", (c) 1988 Mike Walton)
At Walker Middle School, the "intermediate school" I attended for my first
three years in Rose Terrace, there is a plaque bolted into the wall under
the portait of Walton H. Walker, a military officer and Distinguished
Service Cross holder during World War II...the namesake of the "junior high
school."
It was the first plaque placed there on that wall since the school was built
back in the early 60s. The plaque honored Reginald Boggs, a basketball
player and resident of Van Voorhis Manor, the military community where the
school was located in.
Reggie Boggs was hit by a truck while crossing the roadway not too far from
the school building. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Because Reggie was so visible in the two communities, and because of his
loss so young in his life, the miltary community banded together. Fort Knox
didn't know how to deal with such a loss....there were many deaths of
trainees across town.
They knew how to deal with that: with press releases, a military honor guard
at the family's home town, and the appropriate military honors. Same goes
with the accidental or intentional shooting of a soldier. They know how to
deal also with the death of spouses of servicemembers too.
But Fort Knox, the "Home of Armor," was about to learn how to deal with the
death of children. Between 1973 and 1976, twelve children will experience
death. Four of them will take their own lives. Two of them will be
accidently killed. One will transition in the aftermath of a high-speed
daredevil drive on a back tank trail and will meet up with a muliple-ton
tracked vehicle head-on. One death -- the death of a young man found in the
wooded area south of the post -- is unexplained. The rest were to be
completed by drug or alcohol ingestion or overdosing.
My Scoutmaster at the time, William Roberts, attempted to explain what it
all meant..Reggie's death. We, the eight or so boys left in Troop 126,
listened as Roberts explained that we all die and that it is part of
Scouting to be brave and reverent. Then, he explained something else.
He took us all outside, up through the fields to a place which used to be
the platform for one of those World War-II style barracks...similar to the
one we met in down the path. The large helicopter pilot waited for all us
to arrive, then found a stick and drew a circle into the dirt. Then, he
drew a period in the middle of the circle.
"Anyone know what this is??" We were all quiet.
"Guess." Not a word was spoken. Then finally, one of the senior boys -- a
First Class Scout named Spence spoke up. "It's a trail sign, right? It
means..."I'm right here", right?"
"It is a trail sign," Chief Warrant Officer 2 Roberts spoke, "but it's got a
different meaning. Wanna guess again what it means?" I loved the way the
man can say "You're WRONG!!" and at the same time, encouraged you to be
right too. Like a teacher. Like Ms. Speck.
Spence chose not to guess again, so Mr. Roberts continued, laying the stick
he used off to a side and kneeling down to the dirt and ground.
"It's the sign for "I've gone home. This is you," he pointed to the dot in
the center of the circle, "and this is the world. This is how small you are
compared to the rest of the world. Individually, you can't do a whole
lot....but place several people in this world...together, you can do a whole
lot. You can fill up this entire circle."
"We all feel that we are alone in the world. We all feel that nobody will
understand our pain, or know how bad we feel about things. But we have
others to rely on and to help us out, so we don't feel like we're out here
all by ourselves. It's a matter of faith."
He continued, "When I fly a helicopter out there, I have to place my faith
into a lot of people. The mechanics, whom fixes and repairs parts of those
big machines -- and that's what they are -- machines. The test pilot, who
has more nerves than I would...because he has to fly the thing and check it
all out after the mechanics get done with it. And then, there's my crew. I
have to have confidence that they know what they are doing because at 2000
feet above the earth, I don't have time to teach them."
"That dot represents your faith. It represents your willingness to stand out
from a crowd of people and do your best. And this circle represents all of
those others in your community -- this community -- whom will support you.
Sometimes, it will seem as if nobody is there. But they are. They are all
around you just like they are all around this dot in the center."
"Baden-Powell, the founder of Scouting, was so fond of this one trail sign,
that he requested that when he died, that the symbol be placed on his
tombstone...so that Scouts and Scouters around the world will know where
he's at: home."
Two years later, Lieutenant Colonel Benton Murdock, Scoutmaster of young
Troop 801 (which Troop 126, along with two other Troops were rolled into)
explained what that sign meant and how we could remember it. The Troop was
using 3 by 5 index cards to set a trail around the block and he was
explaining what the various signs meant and how we could draw them on the
cards...and use the signs to find the "prize" -- a bag of candy bars.
"This sign means "I have gone home." When I was a Scout, the way I
remembered this particular sign was to remember a doorbell. See?" He drew
the circle and then the period inside the circle and to illustrate it, he
placed his finger onto the period and voiced "ding ding!"
We all looked at each other with funny expressions. "Ding ding"??
Clifton Mullins, one of my neighbors whom I brought to the Troop, answered
in his spicy Jamacian accent, "That's not how a door bell sounds, man!"
Clifton was only 11, and his mastery of the English language and our ways of
life wasn't complete at that time. He had trouble in school keeping up, but
that great bright smile against that dark black face of his kept him from
being put behind in some remedial class somewhere.
Colonel Murdock turned and said, "Okay....come up here and show us what does
a door bell sound like." He smiled as Clifton got up from our table, walked
up to the board, and placed his finger on the card replacing the adult finger.
"Ding dong, Avon calling!" He smiled and returned to his seat. The entire
group rolled in laughter. Even Colonel Murdock chuckled as he watched the
kid return to his seat, crossing his arms as he waited for the next part of
the instruction.
Clifton just gave that broad grin of his, showing all of his bright white
teeth as the rest of his patrol members -- including me, his Patrol Leader
-- touched him on his shoulder or reached over to pat him on the back for
making a boring session liven up a bit.
******
Clifton, by the way, won the trailing and tracking contest.
Settummanque!
-----
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle
personal inquiries via kyblkeagle@aol.com,
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:36:18 -0700
Reply-To: Larry & Julia Gaer
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Larry & Julia Gaer
Subject: Re: Scoutnet 2000 ---- Now What?
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> The biggest thing is that local Councils will no longer keep local copies
of
> anything.
> Under the system, paper reduction is one of the keys...and Goodness knows,
> I'm ALL for paper reduction (a causal look around my officeroom will
reveal
> that I need a little "ScoutNet 2000" here!! *smile*). But one of the many
> things I enjoyed about the way the BSA was structured was that there was
> "built in redunancy".
>
This is something I did not realize! Only two places where info is kept now?
Do the Councils hold copies of the original registration forms for
Pack/Troop members? Man - I wish I had known this before.
Our Pack has lost our copies of registration forms during two major
transitions of Committee members. We have been able to get most of the info
from Council - but not all of it is on the list they provide. For example,
date signed up with the unit, what rank cub Scout they are by promotion,
training level for the adults.....that kind of thing. It makes it hard to
get your records in order when even Council doesn't have everything that
"should" be written down somewhere.
Maybe I'm not asking the right questions? Anyone? Suggestions?
Julia Kidd-Gaer
Pack 174, Northstar District, Boulder Dam Area Council
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:38:57 EDT
Reply-To: Yanksnum1@AOL.COM
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Bob Koch
Subject: Re: adults at PLC
X-To: DSearstoni@aol.com
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The standard PLC membership is listed in the SM handbook, the patrol Leaders
handbook.... Sure, there are times when you may deviate from this when it is
necessary. And yes, you may want to invite other leaders and parents to the
PLC maybe once a year to have them understand the purpose and the importance.
The SM should be there at all times (refering to another listing that said
their PLC was meeting without the SM). He/She can handle the "safe Scouting"
issues.
However, it is a good time for the SPL to show leadership with the SM there
as an advisor. It is also a good time for the other members to "speak their
mind" on certain important issues that the Troop boy leadership has to
address. This would quite difficult with parents in attendance.
After all, how many scouts attend committee and SM staff meetings?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 09:18:49 -0500
Reply-To: Tim Harkness
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Tim Harkness
Subject: SPSR Staff Opportunities
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Spanish Peaks Scout Ranch, operated by the Santa Fe Trail Council, is
looking for highly qualified staffers for the upcoming 2000 Summer Camp
Session. For more information go to
http://www.sftcbsa.org/spsr/spsrstaff.htm
for more information. There is an online form to request an application
to be sent to you.
We especially need rangers for our high adventure programs and adults to
over see our different merit badge areas.
Spanish Peaks Scout Ranch still has openings for campers for the 2000
session. For more information to spend the summer hiking or camping in
the mountains of Colorado visit
http://www.sftcbsa.org/spsr/index.html
There is an online form to have printed material sent to you.
SPSR is about 100 miles north of Philmont at Walsenburg, CO
YIS
Tim Harkness ICQ Nickname: Freethree
Council Commissioner ICQ UserID: 1023641
Unit Commissioner "I used to be a Fox,..."
Webmaster, Santa Fe Trail Council
http://www.sftcbsa.org
Owner Harkness Electric Garden City, KS
http://www.harknesselectric.com
Personal website
http://members.xoom.com/freethree/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:43:18 -0500
Reply-To: Tim Harkness
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Tim Harkness
Subject: Scouting Humor Forum
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Some months, maybe a year or two, I put together a section of the Santa
Fe Trail Council for Scouting humor.
Many people sent me emails with great stories and one comes in now and
then. But my time is rather resticted in getting them entered to the
site.
But now I have made it pretty self editing. I have set up a forum on the
site for you to add your own stories, additions to lists that are there
and more.
The site is at http://www.sftcbsa.org/humor/index.html
Enjoy!
YIS
Tim Harkness ICQ Nickname: Freethree
Council Commissioner ICQ UserID: 1023641
Unit Commissioner "I used to be a Fox,..."
Webmaster, Santa Fe Trail Council
http://www.sftcbsa.org
Owner Harkness Electric Garden City, KS
http://www.harknesselectric.com
Personal website
http://members.xoom.com/freethree/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:39:13 -0700
Reply-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Bob and Rusty Taylor
Subject: hiking merit badge
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next Saturday we do our 20 mile day hike for the hiking merit badge. I am
looking for hints to pass on to the boys for preparation for this hike. any
suggestions besides take lots of extra socks?
Bob Taylor
--- "If you build it, they will come."
/ \
----------- Bob Taylor Troop, 1590 Committee Chairman
(| @ @ |) Chief Seattle Council
| > | WE1-609-97 (A good old Buffalo)
" \_/ " going to work my ticket and always an Eagle!
"""""
""" brtaylor@telebyte.net (home)
webpage: http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:04:36 -0700
Reply-To: Bob and Rusty Taylor
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Bob and Rusty Taylor
Subject: Leave No Trace
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what is the difference between "Leave No Trace" and "Scouting Ahead"
programs? are they the same thing?
Bob Taylor
--- "If you build it, they will come."
/ \
----------- Bob Taylor Troop, 1590 Committee Chairman
(| @ @ |) Chief Seattle Council
| > | WE1-609-97 (A good old Buffalo)
" \_/ " going to work my ticket and always an Eagle!
"""""
""" brtaylor@telebyte.net (home)
webpage: http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:37:34 -0400
Reply-To: Henry Sanschagrin
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From: Henry Sanschagrin
Subject: Troop in Trouble
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A big THANK YOU to all members of Scout-l who answered my "Troop in
Trouble" last week. Many of you answered me privately and some of you
answered thru the list. It is great to know that answers can be found if
one simply asks the question to the right people. I might try and reply to
some of you privately since many brought good points.
1--Just about every one agreed about 5 scouts for re-registering. Our
committee has agreed not to use "fanthom" names in order to get the 5
needed scouts. A scout is Honest.
2--Same thing for the 2 older scouts and the 2 younger scouts. A transfer
to another troop is the likely choice here.
3--Our council does have all the advancement records for these boys. We
being a small town with approx 3000 pop., I am sure to learn of a new Troop
starting up before it even gets off the ground. And I also plan on making
sure the whole present troop committee knows where the records will be stored.
4--This is the one that I do not agree with and it seems that most of those
that responded didn't either. Our chartered organization does not care
about us. All they provide us with is a meeting place and a damp basement
to store our old equipment. Our valuable stuff (tents) are at the home of
one of the members of the committee.
Our boys have worked for their own individual scout and camp funds and we
just assume
take the boys on trips and spend the money than to let the Chartered
Organization get their hands on it. Some of our equipment was bought by our
leaders at yard sales etc. and then "donated" to our troop. National should
look at their policy on this very carefully and revise it. Maybe our
Chartered Organization "owns " us on paper, but they sure do not "own" us
in spirit.
5--As far as Adults go, I am already a WoodBadger, completed 2 years ago,
so that is no problem. I didn't realize that one could remain in OA thru
registering with the District. I will be checking this out.
In conclusion, We haven't given up yet. We might have a recruiting night
soon and we will see how that goes.
Once again, A BIG THANK YOU to all who answered.
yis
Henry Sanschagrin
Troop 202
Gorham, NH
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:13:18 EDT
Reply-To: MarciaTX@AOL.COM
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From: Marcia Trudeau
Subject: Re: hiking merit badge
X-To: brtaylor@telebyte.net
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I did the 20 mile hike with our Scouts. Here are my suggestions:
small backpack --- I took frozen gatorade....it seem to give more energy than
just water. Make your lunch an energy lunch. Peanut Butter and jelly
sandwiches really worked great along with trail mix.
extra pairs of socks...I took three and used them all. They make good
hiking socks...ordered from campmor.... I used military socks, wool, and
they were great. I also took another pair of shoes. Tell the boys to take a
spare pair of shoes and change them half way.
The most important suggestion is duct tape. Put duct tape on the areas you
know you will get blisters. This definitely helps prevent blisters. Its
better than moleskin.
Stop and take off shoes and sock and let them cool down.
We did our hike in 90 degree weather. It was a scorcher, but the boys did
great.
Marcia Trudeau
ASM, Troop 132
Harlingen, TX
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 17:47:06 -0700
Reply-To: "Thomas Heavey, Sr."
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "Thomas Heavey, Sr."
Subject: Traveling in uniform
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Bruce Coburn wrote to Calvin Gray:
I fully agree about traveling in uniform and the extra consideration
that you get when you are in uniform. Being in uniform also tends to
restrain some of the more potentially outrageous behavior and allow easy
identification of YOUR charges. (Unless you are on a train full of
Scouts on the way to Philmont where your charges look just like everyone
else's. :-)
Bruce- We've solved that problem, too. Our troop, sponsored by Saint
Patrick's Parish, wears the dark green uniform which many folks associate
with the old Exploring Posts. It was a Boy Scout Uniform in the 80's and we
started then and have kept it up. We keep a troop uniform bank and the
adult leaders scour 2nd hand shops across the state looking for the dark
green shirts. Even in the midst of a crowded scout camp, we can pick out
our boys. Sometimes a blessing, sometimes not.
_____________
Thomas Heavey, Sr. ___ | |
heavey@nwrain.com \ \ / |
YN1-USCGR \ \/ * Tacoma, WA |
Scoutmaster Troop 299 \__ |
www.nwrain.net/~troop 299 |_______________|
WE-1-603-92 (I used to be an owl ...)
"Anyone can be great
because anyone can serve." --MLKjr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:25:03 -0400
Reply-To: Cliff Cray
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Cliff Cray
Subject: Re: Uniform Wearing Policy Troop 28
X-To: JoelMarc@AOL.COM
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Joel Korczynski wrote:
> My Assistant Scoutmaster prefers to not wear his uniform to and from camping
> trips because he says he has ruined his uniform before during the set up and
> take down of camp. Our policy has always been wear the uniform to and from
> all Scout activities. The double standard does not work here. Should I
> except camping trips? Only non Council events? Or stick to our policy and
> risk alienating the only assistant that I have right now. Remember, I just
> took over this Troop and am rebuilding it from the ground floor. What is your
> policy? How do you think I should proceed? Thanks, Joel Marc Korczynski, New
> Scoutmaster of Troop 28 Red Lion, PA,
I am a firm believer that the uniform should be worn whenever you may be viewed
by the public. We leave from our meeting place, the church. May only be the
secretary on a Friday afternoon or the Pastor. Then if it is any distance we may
stop at a store for a soda or just a rr stop. At the site or on a hike we may be
in shorts or pants but usually have some sort of scouting T-shirt on. Then in
uniform for the trip home. The thing that swayed me the most ( I have always
believed in the uniform) was a trip to the White Mountain National forest for a
hike. When we left our campsite on Sunday it was a warm day and I let the boy's
wear what they wanted. I was the only one in full uniform. On the way home we
stopped by Lake Chocorua for lunch. While there a troop of Girl Scouts arrived to
hold a Court of honor by the lake. The girls and leaders had uniforms and sashes
etc. My motley looking gang mostly in the smoke smelling and not so great
looking cloths made me want to hide the fact that we were Scouts. Of course we
could not as two adults had the uniform on. Since then I always made them wear
the uniform to and from. The next SM was to lax with this but has resigned and I
think the new SM will go along with the uniform in public.
Cliff
Former Scoutmaster Troop 136, Jambo Troop 527
Former District Commissioner
Daniel Webster Council, Manchester NH
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:36:11 -0700
Reply-To: Tom Lynch
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Tom Lynch
Organization: BSA Troop135
Subject: Re: High Adventure for 3rd year Scouts near Oklahoma
X-To: barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV
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barry_c_runnels@MMACMAIL.JCCBI.GOV wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am looking for some advice on planning a high adventure trip for our 3rd year
> Scouts.
Barry,
I'm Scoutmaster for Troop 135 in Tehachapi CA. Our troop usually does a 50
miler each year for our older scouts, plus summer camp. This year though, we tried
something a little different. The requirements for this trip were 1st. class,
swimming M/B, & canoeing M/B, and a good trail bike. What we did was, to start, 6
boys and 7 adults canoed about 75 miles of the Owens river, we spent 3 days on the
river. Then 7 boys and 5 adults spent 2 days bike back up river to the
vehicles.(only 40 miles on bike). The 5 boys and 4 adults entered the John Muir
Trail at Bishop Pass, and hiked 5 days to Mount Whitney. They had a great time and
came back to the troop meeting with lots to talk about. Our youngest was 12, oldest
14. We plan on doing it again.
Our Idea for next year is to Drive the scouts up to Florence Lake, take the
boat 3 miles across the lake and enter the John Muir wilderness area. This way we
can take our younger scouts, hike them about 5 miles, and they will be in the middle
of one of the largest wilderness areas in CA., without having to hike the 40 miles
in from the other side. This way with litte effort we can allow our younger scout
to experiemce wilderness camping with very little wear and tear on their bodies from
heavy backpacking. It will also allow them to be in real wilderness, with the bears
and other critters, and have to use all the backpack camping skills as the
experienced scouts.
I hope this give you some information that you were looking for.
YIS
Thomas Lynch, woodsliv@tminet.com
Tehachapi,
Land of Four Seasons
Vigil (Nimenees) W/B Bobwhite & Staffer
Silver Beaver & many years left for Scouting
Scoutmaster Troop 135, Tehachapi, CA
Southern Sierra Council, Trailblazer District
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:30:59 -0400
Reply-To: "John J. Fox"
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: "John J. Fox"
Subject: Re: Introduction
X-To: John Peschken
In-Reply-To: <19991001152027.96917.qmail@hotmail.com>
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5 years and still singing,
Our council hold a reunion dinner, this is it's 25 year.
John J. Fox mailto:v-jfox@mediaone.net
Pack 405 East Derry, N.H., Committee
Troop 405 East Derry, N.H., ASM "Summer Camp was my specialty"
I used to be an Eagle (NE-I-155@HVSR)
May we each attempt to live the SO,SL,SS,SM
| >>>---------->| Brotherhood in the spring
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:05:06 -0700
Reply-To: Pam Glidden
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From: Pam Glidden
Subject: Going to conference
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Just wanted to let you guys know, in case anyone is
trying to reach me this next week, that I am going to
be gone to the International CHADD conference. I will
be going on no mail status this weekend. I will be
back the week of October 12th. I'm hoping to get lots
of updated information regarding AD/HD to share.
Pam Glidden
District Commissioner
Green River District
Chief Seattle Council
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:27:28 -0700
Reply-To: Joyce and Jerry Johnson
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From: Joyce and Jerry Johnson
Subject: Re: Registry of Eagles
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I had the opportunity to visit the National Office in 96. It was
quite a thrill to hold in my hands the old ledgers listing all of the
recipients of the Eagle Award.
If my memory serves me right - there was a project underway where the
National Staff was placing these records into the computer system.
I'm not sure of the purpose of having these names placed into a
system for universal publication and general purchase. We are a
computerized world, with open communications, but. Invasion of
privacy comes to mind by making such a list of names available to
all. NESA and National are very helpful in passing on information
that is requested of them. Just my thoughts.
In Scouting,
Joyce Johnson
Chief Seattle Council
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:58:10 -0400
Reply-To: Ted Holz
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Ted Holz
Subject: Free Graphics
X-To: "Activities Committee, Carl Pettengill"
,
"Activities Committee, Sean Sparks" ,
"Commissioner, Barb Sleight" ,
"Commissioner, Dale Mele" ,
"Commissioner, Jeff Wood" ,
"Commissioner, Jim Engle" ,
"Commissioner, John Rudy" ,
"Commissioner, John Soergel" ,
"Commissioner, Mace Felton" ,
"Commissioner, Mike Kane" ,
"Dist. Comm., Steve Fisher" ,
"Exec, John Whitford" ,
"Pack 042, Frank Johnson" ,
"Pack 077, Dorothy Money" ,
"Pack 153, Julie Kilbride" ,
"Pack 162, Bill Thieke" ,
"Pack 162, Ken Kirkland" ,
"Pack 177, Joe Irish" ,
"Ranger, Dennis Robinson" ,
"Scout, John Fletcher" ,
"Scouter, Bill Swift" ,
"Scouter, Brian Sterner" ,
"Scouter, Chris Knight" ,
"Scouter, Debby Farnsworth" ,
"Scouter, Gerald L Findley" ,
"Scouter, Tom Ropchak" ,
"Scouter, Wayne Farnsworth" ,
"Troop 001, Bradley B Fisk" ,
"Troop 001, Chris DeVoe" ,
"Troop 001, Terry Richmond" ,
"Troop 007, Ed White" ,
"Troop 027, Bill Willman" ,
"Troop 050, Nick Lettieri" ,
"Troop 051, Paul Szemkow" ,
"Troop 115, Tom Burt" ,
"Troop 142, Gary Williams" ,
"Troop 177, Bruce Gilbert" ,
"Troop 177, David Mazur" ,
"Troop 210, Bruce Foster" ,
"Troop 210, Doug St. Laurent" ,
"Troop 223, Jim Dantanello" ,
"Troop 244, Ed Joslin" ,
"Troop 326, Dave Grant" ,
"Augustine, Don" ,
"Blansett, Dick" ,
"Buerger, Dave \"Doc\"" ,
"Cullen, Cathie" ,
"Hill, Robert" ,
"Moran, William" ,
"Newquist, Del" ,
"Percy, Judy" ,
"Rennie, Dave" ,
"Setzer, Edson" ,
"Vereschak, Steve" ,
"Waddington, Francis C." ,
"Wart, Tom" ,
"Waters, Jim"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just a quick message to let you know that I've added a new feature to
the Onondaga District Web site at
http://home.twcny.rr.com/uncleted/onondaga/
This morning I uploaded almost 600 graphics that are now available for
download. They are broken down into 24 categories and each category is
downloadable as a .zip file. In total there are about 24 megs of
graghics. I hope you enjoy using them.
To access them from the main page click on "Program Helps & Links" and
you'll follow the "Free Scouting Graphics" link.
Ted Holz
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:59:25 -0700
Reply-To: Lynn R Oakleaf
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List
From: Lynn R Oakleaf
