FW: (US) Flag on Uniform

Dear List members,

Mike asked me to post this on the list as he can not post to the list from
his present email address.

Auke Koopmans

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KYBLKEAGLE@aol.com [SMTP:KYBLKEAGLE@aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 1999 4:46 AM
> To: Auke.Koopmans@fao.org
> Cc: koopmans@loxinfo.co.th; edp_asia@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: (US) Flag on Uniform
>
> Please copy this over to Scouts-L as it would help other Scouters that are
> experiencing the same problem. I can't post presently to Scouts-L; I hope
> to
> get that corrected this coming week.
>
> Auke asked over on Scouts-L:
>
> >A question has popped up here in our troop in Chiangmai, Thailand. Our
> >troop
> is multi-national with boys basically coming from all over the world. >We
> know
> the American flag is used on the shirt sleeve but for non-american >boys
> we
> have used flags from their own country. We were told that this is
> >incorrect and that only the American flag should be used.
>
> Basically, they are right. Under the WOSM's policies, the country in
> which
> the unit is registered should be on the uniform in the place that country
> decided to place the flag. For most nations, Auke, that's either above
> the
> strip which identifies the member or on the right shoulder as the first
> patch
> or emblem. The BSA used to have the US flag on its Cub Scouting uniforms
> to
> be placed immediately above the "Boy Scouts of America" or "Cub Scouts-
> BSA"
> strip on the right side; but they changed that to have all members wear it
> on
> the right shoulder, first position as you've been told. However, the BSA
> smartly placed in their uniform and insignia policies that the US flag is
> an
> OPTIONAL item for this reason and some related to this kind of thing.
>
> Now, how do you get Scouts from other nations to wear the right flag
> emblem?
> You make the flag emblem a TEMPORARY patch and wear it centered on the
> right
> pocket of the member. In this way, you don't break the BSA's uniform
> policies as well as allowing each member to show their nationality.
>
> >Before you answers this you should know that we are registered as Troop
> >731
> with the BSA - Far East Council in Tokyo we apparently are also
> >registered
> with the national Thai Boyscout organization ( at this moment no->one is
> really sure).
>
> I would check to make sure. If the Far East Council is aware of your
> unit's
> membership as a host-nation unit, then that brings into question your BSA
> registration, as the BSA doesn't allow "OFFICIAL registration" of BSA
> members
> as members of host-nation Scouting associations too. However,
> "AFFILIATIONS"
> and informal memberships ARE allowed, so your unit can be *affiliated
> with*
> the Thai Scout Association and MEMBERS of the BSA.
>
> For instance, an American citizen cannot earn Eagle and the highest youth
> recognition in Thailand too, because of agreements signed by both
> countries
> and all other countries of the World Association; and is the basis for the
> BSA's Direct Service, Philippines, Korea, Panama Canal Zone, and later
> Transatlantic and Far East Councils. Now with only two "Overseas
> Councils"
> and the Direct Service Council, the BSA has a better handle on how to deal
> with advancements earned outside the United States.
>
> (if the person holds dual citizenship as both a Thai and American citizen,
> it's possible and it's been done that the Scout has been able to earn
> Eagle
> AND the highest award in his "other country" too....it's a matter of
> timing...)
>
> Scouts registered in other nations' Scouting associations can participate
> with
> BSA units -- that is, attend their meetings, go camping, and all of the
> rest.
> They CANNOT RECEIVE BSA awards and insignia with the exception of those
> items
> classified as "participation and activity awards" like summer camp patches
> or
> special event patches. If you have Scouts registered as both Boy Scouts
> (through FEC) and as "host nation Scouts", the question will come up
> sooner or
> later as to the person's ACTUAL REGISTRATION. And sometimes it comes up
> while
> the Scout is attending an Eagle board of review or when a records review
> is
> conducted for a merit or heroism award.
>
> So please get that fixed, Auke!!
>
> >The reason for this appears to be that some 20-30 years ago
> >the use of foreign uniforms was frowned upon in Thailand and for that
> >reason
> we were asked to register with the Thai Boy Scouts. For the same >reason
> we
> use also instead of the "Boyscouts of America" strip above the >shirt
> pocket a
> strip which reads "International Division BST".
>
> And is why such sensitivities affect BSA membership and units in your
> community as well as in other communities around the world. If your unit
> is
> registered as a Far East Council unit, your members MUST wear the BSA's
> uniform as complete as possible. You are permitted to wear the additional
> strip above the BSA's official strip but NOT IN THE PLACE OF IT. This has
> been a long time policy of FEC (your country is not the only one that does
> this; Korean Scouts also have this problem and they wear the BSA's field
> uniform with a strip above it stating their "affiliation" with the Scout
> Association of South Korea).
>
> >As we try to get some uniformity in our troop we would like to know if
> the
> >use of other countries flags on the shirt sleeve (instead of the American
> >flag) is allowed or prohibited.
>
> Prohibited. To make things uniform for your Troop, have all American
> members
> wear the US flag as a temporary emblem on the right pocket and all other
> members to wear their country's flag as a temporary emblem on the right
> pocket. This will enable your unit to be "uniform" and could hedge off
> any
> potential problems with anyone from your host nation.
>
> Hope this helps out, Auke. Do get that membership clearance thing
> fixed...it
> may be just a coordination effort between the District Executive of your
> District and the host nation's Scouting relations person in Thailand.
>
> Settummanque@Honduras!

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