Re: Where are we on the Moral Compass?
(no name) ((no email))
Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:13:30 -0600
WHOA WHOA WHOAA!!!!!!
Okay. Let's hold on for a minute, before we start *another round*
of "sparks" here!!
Valerie Deneen <vsimpson@concentric.net> stated in part:
>We chatted about the fact that Mr. Clinton is the Honorary Chief
>Scout for the United States
Nooooo...
President Clinton serves as Honorary National *President* of the
BSA, NOT as "Chief Scout". The BSA's "Chief Scout" (Executive) is
Jere Radcliffe. Big difference here. The BSA hasn't had a true
"Chief Scout" in many a moon!
>and that it seems that BSA has NOT taken any steps to
>castigate or chastise or anything viz this position in Scouting.
As they should. Remember that the BSA DID NOT "elevate" President
Clinton to that position; by action of the BSA's Congressional
Charter as well as the BSA's Charter and Bylaws, the current
President of the United States serves as HONORARY PRESIDENT of the
BSA; in a likewise manner, the President is also the Honorary
President of the Girl Scouts of the USA, the American Red Cross,
the American Legion, and several dozen of other national
organizations, by VIRTUE OF HIS OFFICE.
Let's keep this in mind, gang: he was NOT ELECTED TO A POSITION
WITHIN ANY VOLUNTEER MOVEMENT; HE SERVES IN AN HONORARY ROLE BY
VIRTUE OF HIS POSITION AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
Therefore, the BSA, GSUSA, and other organizations have little
recourse other than to change their chartering documents to remove
the position completely because you cannot "exclude" one person
from the position one year and "include" the next one the next.
Or to leave things as they are and see, as we're witnessing,
whether or not he will be removed or not as President. The BSA has
left things as they are, and as far as I'm aware, so has the Girl
Scouts of the USA.
>Additionally, it seems that recipients of the Silver Beaver are
>returning theirs in fairly high numbers due to the "error" (?) of
>honoring Mr. Clinton with the same award.
Bill Clinton was honored with the Silver Beaver for his service to
youth as GOVERNOR of Arkansas, a decade or so BEFORE he became
President. So, if anyone's returning Silver Beavers (and I haven't
heard of ANY Scouters doing so, officially or not) to National,
they are doing so under rather flimsly pretense; for they won't be
"protesting" President Clinton's Silver Beaver.
What *some Scouters* have asked National to do, from what I
understand, is to "take back" the Silver BUFFALO Award which is
given more or less "automatically" to the sitting President of the
United States for his service to youth as the Honorary President of
the BSA. There hasn't been any word on this. There has also been
*some Eagle Scouts* whom have returned their Eagle Scout
CERTIFICATES back to National asking them to remove the President's
pre-printed signature from the certificate (which National has
refused to do; they didn't do in the case of former President Nixon
either). And there's no plan presently that I'm aware of to provide
an "alternative Eagle Scout certificate" without the Honorary
President's signature on it.
>It seems to me that BSA is somewhat two-faced in not following up
>with this with Mr. Clinton and or by asking for his Silver Beaver
>as he is not acting responsibly in his job or actions.
No, it's *very consistant*. The BSA doesn't remove insignia or
awards from individuals "just because." I'm sure if the President
is removed from office, then the BSA would be in their right to
request their items to be returned. However, there are several
Eagle Scouts serving time in our jails across this nation, and the
BSA hasn't seen fit to request that they return their Eagle Scout
Badges. In the history of the BSA, the National Executive Board
(which is the ONLY authority which can do so) has only "taken back"
seven Eagle Scout Badges; and as far as I'm aware, has NEVER
requested a Scouter to return a Silver Beaver, Antelope, Buffalo,
World or Fawn Award except for those rare cases whereby the
original award was defective.
>It is certainly difficult to lead Boy and Girl Scouts with our
>Leader acting and attempting to legitimize his actions through
>verbiage of questionable integrity and without honor.
Perhaps. Perhaps this gives you and other Scouters a true
opportunity to examine ethics and the impact that what you say or
do -- or don't say or do -- affects others. This could become a
project in which discussion and application of the Scouting ideals
would make MORE of an impact than would normally occur with just
"talking about the Scouting ideals and what they mean to you."
>Perhaps we within BSA are of the same mind set and folly with OUR
>Chief Scout still under a possible felony trial for carrying a
>concealed weapon in a Florida airport; i.e. "if we live in the
>glass house, we can't throw stones"
As far as I'm aware, Val, those charges were dismissed a while
back; and no, I don't think that everyone within the BSA thinks or
feels the same way about this.
This is one of those things, gang, that we won't come to any kind
of real consensus on, and I would ask that we limit this to
*private postings* to each other instead of through the list. When
this issue came up, we spent way too much time trying to resolve
the issue here online and we lost some folks thinking that that's
ALL we talk about here. I don't want to pour water on a youth
program topic(s) or issue(s) ("Should the President step down as
Honorary President of our youth movements?") ("Should the President
return those awards presented to him by national youth programs?")
("Should the national youth programs adjust their charters and
policy documents to allow for removal of the Honorary President?")
But to try and rehash what the President did/didn't do, say/didn't
say, and actions/failure to act, isn't really in the best interest
of Scouters here and I would ask for *extreme restraint*.
There *are* some questions to ask here, and I've tried to answer
some of them. I'm hoping that followups would expand on my
responses as well as to "filling in" the "gaps" I left out or
wasn't aware of.
Settummanque!
(c) 1998 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") blkeagle@mninter.net
http://mninter.net/~blkeagle Burnsville, MN 55306-7130 (612) 435-3085
privately at kyblkeagle@aol.com or waltonm@server.kaiserslautern.army.mil
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