Re: females on campouts.

> > hi don, thank you for the posting on your group, the incoming has been
> > interesting to say the least, i've received over fifty responses as you
> > say
<snip-snip>

I had decided not to weigh in on this. After reading your message, I now regret
that I didn't.

I have only been in scouts, including Explorers, a little over four years now. I
grew up in Awana, earning a citation award (their equivalent of eagle) and
working in it also as an adult, but many of the same principles and ideals still
do apply.

Women do, can and will contribute much to scouting and the boys, but above
all it has to be remembered that this is for the boys and to get the boys to run
it themselves. One of the things you are taught in youth protection is that the
scouts need to have a safe and _comfortable_ enviroment. Right or wrong,
some may not only be uncomfortable with having a women with them on
campouts, but I have to think that if any of the claims of arrogance are even
close to being true, it would be an uncomfortable situation for me and this may
be more the reason. Also, an earlier post said that if they were behaving
differently around females, possibly they weren't behaving as scouts. Nothing
could be farther from the truth. There are different behaviours not only for
genders, but different occasions and people, this doesn't mean they are wrong,
just inappropriate for given situation.

(When I first read the post, I couldn't help but think what would happen if I
insisted on going with the Brownies or Girl Scouts camping. Political
correctness at it's best.)

If the boy's aren't comfortable with her, that's one thing. If it is a woman in
certain positions in the Troop/Pack, then the views and attitudes of the other
adult leaders may need to be looked at and, if needed and agreed upon,
corrected. Then the boys need to be guided and helped to understand what the
correct attitude is and why, whatever that is decided to be. These types of
attitudes are not developed in a vacumn, and even though they don't always
seem too, most of these boys mimick the traits of people they respect such as
parents, teachers and adult leaders.

There are some boys, maybe even most, who come for the "male bonding", at
least in part and maybe even unknowingly. Like it or not, the norm is that Adult
males and females interact different with young people of both genders, as do
the young people themselves. I don't make these rules, that's just the way it is.
I would guess that if the Troop feels this as a whole, it is due more to adult
influence then anything else, and you might want to spend some serious time
discussing it among yourselves and coming to a clear consensus on what the
Troop does or does not feel. You may be surprised and there is a silent
majority lurking about somewhere.

Realize that in a camp setting, many long term relationships can and are
established. Some boys feel more comfortable talking about some things
around other "guys". A few obvious ones that come to mind are girls and
dating. Less obvious ones may be drug or health related. You might go on
dozens of campouts, and these are never even mentioned, but I would rather
they feel comfortable enough to _possibly_ discuss this with a male
leader/adult and maybe along with some of the guys, then to hold back and
only learn things from their peers in the name of being PC.

Removing the gender issue, there are some personalities that just clash. Is this
the case with her and some of the other adults or members of the troop? Is it
possible that she just has a trait, personality or done something that makes
the troop uncomfortable or threatened? Is she pushing because in the past
some or all of you have brushed her or her ideas aside?

Motives do need to be examined on occasion. Contrary to someones earlier
post stating that it is hard enough to find adults willing to get involved, a good
friend has always counciled me that you would rather have 3 dedicated "doers"
then a dozen people there filling the positions. Less dedicated scouters are
more effective then more "babysitters".

Understand that if some are taking you to task, it is because the way it was
presented, SHE was making it a gender issue and, for reasons that I thought
you were clear on but others obviously did not, you appeared to take a counter
position. What I read seemed like you just wanted to know how to deal with
something uncomfortable. I probably haven't help in that regard too much, but
hopefully I've pointed out some things for you to look at as to the cause of the
problem.

Who knows, you may get lucky. Now I'll be the one who gets shots for being
politically incorrect.

Dave Yanke

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