Re: Female on campouts (long)

In a message dated 5/20/98 9:21:46 PM, GarGar205@AOL.COM wrote:

<< then
we had an adult female come on some, the fun stopped like a fly on a
winshield, everything was all out of place>>

Hello David,

To begin, congratulations on expressing your point of view well. This list
can be a tough bunch and you are expressing a minority opinion. This is good
evidence of the point of the law which says "A Scout is Brave."

I agree that the social dynamics with females present can be very different
with women present than with them not present. My troop as a Scout was all
boys, my high school was all boys, my college had 20 women and over 1000 men
in our class. I am very familiar with the all male dynamics. And I am
learning about the more current male/female dynamics which appear to be part
of our society today.

Our mission in Scouting is traning young people in citizenship, character and
fitness. (This is something taught in adult leader training. It is not
surprising if you, as a youth member, have not yet heard this said in so many
words.) We do our best to anticipate what will be the skills which our youth
members will need in the 10 to 60 years in the future when they are adults.
We are a huge, 5 million person, movement and we don't all agree closely on
what we should do and how we should do it.

One way to do this would be to create an all-male environment similar to that
when I was a Scout. This appears to be what you would prefer.

The other is a mixed male/female environment with males and females in equal
leadership status depending on their personal capability.

I believe that the latter situation is one which is much more realistic in
today's society and far more realistic in the society in which you will be a
leader. It isn't always as comfortable for a male (try being a middle aged
white male nowadays) but it is what the majority of us believe life is going
to be. I think we will be doing you a substantial disservice if we put you
into an all-male Scouting leadership situation. We will be using your
precious time in Scouting training you to be a leader in a society which no
longer exists. We will be allowing you to feel more comfortable and prefer a
society which is not yours. Maybe it was my society when I was a Scout, maybe
it is the society which you would prefer, maybe it is even the society which I
would prefer; but it is not the society in which you and I will be living in
the future. We will not be doing you any favors.

I believe it is not possible for a woman to give you all of the guidance
needed to be an adult male in the future. But it certainly is possible for
her to give you the guidance to be an adult in the future. I believe it is
inappropriate for a troop to have a policy which excludes women from the
Scoutmaster's staff (although it might be the case that there are no women at
any particular time). But I believe it would be equally inappropriate for the
Scoutmaster's staff to be all women by policy.

Certain elements of Scouting have changed over the years to reflect changes in
society. At one time, we strongly believed in "a man and a boy on a log" as
the counseling style. Now, due to our youth protection program, that style
has been totally eliminated and reversed. And there will be changes in the
future as society changes. The total inclusion of women in the leadership of
Scouting is such a change.

As far as traditional male activities like peeing on trees, breaking wind,
etc., the trees are still there, help yourself. (Anyone who has had to pee
at 3AM on a cold camping trip has had clear proof that God is male :) )I
believe that an obligation which women undertake when they become Scout
leaders is to understand the characteristics and needs of adolescent boys and
not overenforce traditional female "that's uncouth" expectations on their
Scouts. There appears to be much greater comfort and familiarity with close
personal interactions between men and women than in previous generations.
That should be reflected in the troop although not to the uncomfortableness of
anyone and certainly not to inappropriate actions.

So to summarize, we believe it is our responsibility to create a Scouting
which trains and enables you to be a leader. Most of us believe that training
should include both male and female leaders because then we will be training
you to lead in the future rather than lead in the society of the past.

Best wishes,

Neil Lupton

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