Re: Return From Philmont
(no name) ((no email))
Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:11:53 -0500
Mike Kaufmann replied to Dave Rogers' questions:
(Dave stated, which I'll answer as well):
>> Referring to comments about BSA Web Page ... "check with Council office or
>> BSA Web Page for up to date official word, etc. "
>>
>> Why must we banter back and forth on issues of national policy and rules,
>> such as OA elections and how to wear the World Conservation patch, getting
>> more opinions than (insert your choice here)?
>>
>> Granted, it would eliminate some fine banter, but it would also be a lot more
>> definitive and efficient.
>Aside from the fact that this would completely short circuit that gold old
>BSA chain of command, there's one thing you might want to keep in mind...
>We **ARE** the BSA. The members shape the movement. Many (most?) of the
>changes over the years have occured because volunteers started doing it
>that way. Then the BSA picked up on it, researched it, and gave it their
>seal of approval.
Mike, you're right on the money here!! One of my "pet projects" I've been
working on is the concept of a "virtual local Council". I think that many
Councils have no clue as to the potential that creativity, along with some
programming and support ability, that the new "electronic venues" have
for them. It starts with folks like Gary, Randy, Jim, "Professor Beaver", Ed
and Bill (and "piddlely folks like you and me"), placing on the Internet
information, ideas and thoughts from all of us about how WE envision the
program working and how WE feel about the various ways that the program
has went.....then, the BSA can look at the reaction (or not), do a survey to
determine its effectiveness and incorporation ability into existing program
or program support, and finally, DO IT THEMSELVES, which brings us
full-circle to developing newer ways of using what we have: each other.
Besides "putting people like me "out of business" "(Jessica says I should
make researching and answering Scouting-related questions and issues my
fulltime job, but I tell her that "there's no money in doing something that
I love to do to pass the time of day!" and "there would be a lot more stress
if I had to do it for pay!"), it would immediately give the BSA yet another
way to "restrict information flow".
Huh? Want to run that by me once more?? How would the BSA "restrict
information flow" on the Internet?? I thought the Internet was a free and
open forum for everyone!!!
The BSA has a longtime policy of only releasing information through the
local Council. Why? Besides giving additional people employment
opportunities, it first SPREADS OUT THE LEGAL LIABILITY that would
encounter if for some reason, the BSA gave out inaccurate or wrong
information. For instance, if the BSA says "it's alright for Scouts to
perform CPR without a barrier, because the likelyhood of transmission of
bodily fluids is less", and a Scout develops HIV or full-blown AIDS, then
his parents sues the "BSA".
Next, it GIVES LOCAL AUTHORITY FOR PROGRAMMING AND
SUPPORT (read this "it gives the local Council opportunities for funding
itself and their programs"). Without this local authority, every BSA
Council would be a twin of every other Council, and those smaller
Councils would be forced to employ "specialists" (like finance
and camping/outdoor program directors/executives) that could easily
be performed by other professionals (and thereby cutting administrative
costs). There are some overall "guidelines" for the operation of camping
and outdoor facilities, for membership and for support to the chartered
partner, but for the most part, each and every local Council can "cut and
paste" their own unique style (which changes as the Council Scout
Executive changes) to make the "program reflective of the territories
served and the composition of the membership and adult volunteers
served by the local Council".
Finally, the release of information through the four Regions downward
to the Councils that they service allows for information to be shared in
the other direction (although only by professionals for the most part)
as to the policy's EFFECTIVENESS. When a "shotgun approach" was
tried back in the late 70s with teleconferences and "direct mailings",
it failed miserably because the effectiveness of the program was hard
to measure by National because many Councils were not used to such
a new approach and therefore waited for "instructions from National".
This created situations in many Councils whereby the teleconferences
were announced at just about the last possible minute, and many
Scouters in rural areas could not get to the facility in time to attend or
participate.
Doing all of this via the Internet would have to done by COUNCIL,
which would restrict the information flow to ONLY those professionals
and volunteers that would "have a need to know" in order to protect
the BSA and the local Council. That's restricting the flow, and it would
do little to help the Scouter in the Pack, Troop, Team, Post or Ship.
Now, let me briefly answer Dave's questions here:
>> Why can't we just post our questions for national and get a response from the
>> BSA person in charge of the regs, whether it be OA or uniforms?
Because many of those folks "double and triple". For instance, the person
at National in charge of the National Eagle Scout Association is also
the same person in charge of the Boy Scout Division and is also the
Associate Director of the Program Group. The person that serves as the
staff advisor for the National Insignia and Uniform Committee is also
an Associate Director of Volunteer Training. To say the least, many if not
ALL of the National professional staff members are VERY BUSY PEOPLE,
and many times don't even have time to answer their own internal email
(there's a memo circulating around National two months ago TELLING
people that they MUST answer their email within that same working day
and emphasizing the BSA policy on the Internet...and *I* thought that I
was behind in reading mail! *hehehehee*) let alone responding to what
would be a literal avanlance of email.
Because many of those answers are found in existing BSA literature, and
many Scouters don't find time to read or look it up themselves. That's why
many of us with a lot of those resources don't feel bad about sharing our
sources with each other and those that don't have them...but at the same
time, we feel somewhat being used by people that may have the resources
handy, but don't want to pick up the _Scout_Handbook_ and look it up
themselves, saving a email posting for those things that DOESN'T
appear to be "cut and dried".
Because many of those policies are subject to LOCAL interpretation, as
I explained above. For instance, the Sunny Land Council has IGNORED
the Program Group's insistance that ONLY Order of the Arrow pocket
flaps go on the right pocket flap. They have a "honor camper" flap which
IS NOT AN OA FLAP and gets confused as one by many OA members.
They were also the "originating local Council" that started the "Tote'm
Chip" and "Fire'm Chip" patches which they also allowed on the right
pocket flap. They can do this, because of the BSA's policy which allows
a local Council to develop emblems and insignia "consistant with
national programs".
>> Why must we banter back and forth on issues of national policy and rules,
>> such as OA elections and how to wear the World Conservation patch, getting
>> more opinions than (insert your choice here)?
The banter is reflective of knowledge (or lack thereof) of EXACTLY what
*is* the national policy. As Kathie, Mike Bowman, Chris Haggerty,
Dave Scorra (sorry Dave, I forgot how to spell your last name), and a couple
others here can attest to, there are DEFINATE "DISCONNECTS" between
several BSA publications. The publications are supposed to be coordinated
and reviewed by a group of professionals that are knowledgeable about the
area being written about; in reality, many of the publications are written by
"their seconds" (those working in their offices, to include the admin
assistants and secretaries), and quickly "hacked off" to get them out to
the field to meet the Group Director's deadlines. When it arrives in the
field,
only when items are found (by forums like this, by groups of people at
Philmont's Volunteer Training Center, by professionals that really want to
know their craft, and by the Scout or Scouter that "sees one thing in one
book and another thing in another book"), does corrections and reviews
made and announced.
There's simply not enough time to meet OUR demands to have "the books
we need in the field for us to use".
Note that a lot of what we find here "somehow" finds its way to someone
at the BSA's or GSUSA's National Offices for review and incorporation into
future versions of their publications, so our "banter" isn't all bad (and it
SHOULD be promoted on other forums)!
>> Why can't BSA be really interactive with Home Page?
What would you want the BSA to do electronically? Think about this:
You already get magazines directly mailed to your home six times a year,
full of information and news about the program. This is supplemented
by your local Council's newsletter or magazine, which comes at least
four times a year to you directly. You have a service center, with at
least four heads that are aware of most of the programs in the Scouting
program and which you can go and talk or call and ask (and if they're
any good, they won't try to snow you with stuff and tell you what you
want to know!). You have more than 275 publications and booklets,
many of which are available by mail order, which while may be crossed
somewhat, gives the Scout or Scouter more information about our
programs than what many other nations get TOTALLY. You have a
monthly Roundtable or similiar type meeting in which your concerns
and questions could be answered by Scouts and Scouters that have
been around longer and have perhaps done more within the program
as you have.
And you have Scouts-L, the international "Roundtable Meeting that
NEVER ends"!
What else would you like the BSA's home pages to do, other than to
reduce the amount of paper products used to publish the books and
materials? How would those needing immediate access to this
information get it (believe me, it would keep me from bringing around
my "four-pound binder"!!)
If there's more, why can't we show the BSA how this can be done?
Settummanque!!
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle) (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Services of Kentucky (502.826.7046) __)_
174 Chapelwood Drive, Henderson, Kentucky 42420-5036 | ** |]
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anytime!
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