Re: Multiple Registration Questions
(no name) ((no email))
Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:58:59 -0600
Utah wrote:
>>1. What is the minimum number of adult PRIMARY registrations
>>required for an Explorer Post?
>
>>A portion of Mike Walton's response:
>>FIVE, SEVEN if you have a Co-ed Post. The positions:
>>*Advisor
>>*Associate Advisor
>>Committee Chair
>>Committee Member
>>Chartered Organizational Represenative
>
>>(* indicates that if you have a co-ed post, add two female or
>>two male (depending on sex of other leader) to this roster.
>>In other words, you should have two males and two females as
>>advisor "teams" of the Post. This is not required of >>rechartering; it's
required if you are going to have any outdoor
>>activities -- and your Post SHOULD -- involving both males and
>>females.)
>Thanks for your response, Mike. Our Post is a COED high >adventure Post
with about 60 youth, been to SeaBase, skiing in NM >& Colorado,rafting in
Georgia, and going on Philmont Cavalcade >this summer.
I thought so....
>We turned in recharter with following adults (only one of
>which we paid for):
>
>Committee Chairman -- paid primary
>IH/CR (same person) -- unpaid -- primary in pack
>Advisor -- female, unpaid multiple -- primary as MC in troop
>Associate Advisor -- male, unpaid multiple -- primary in district
> (This one is yours truly)
>2 committee members -- males, unpaid multiples -- primary in >troop
>This didn't go thru. Were told Advisor and her Associate would
>have to be primary (and pay) in Post.
That's someone's (your DE's, probably) decision to have those
two to "count" as Exploring leaders. Remember, Utah, that the
entire issue here is NOT about "where they are" but "how they
are counted". Right now, the count is:
Post other unit District
1 4 1
In order to have this to "count" as a Post, the "Post numbers"
have to be increased by two (so that you need three adults
registered in your Post to "count" as a Post as far as "the
numbers" are concerned). The Advisor and one Associate Advisor
is what's being recommended so that the Council can send
Exploring materials directly to them (and more importantly, so
that the adults can count in the "adult Exploring leader"
column. Right now, an increase of one adult and one Post is
not much of an increase; not that three and 1 Post is any
better, but it can be better "justified" upon review by the
Area Director).
>Because I had to remain
>primary in the district, I switched positions with one of the >MCs, and he
became a primary paid AA (and multiple in troop).
>So now we have 6 adults on charter, 2 primary and 4 multiple.
>However, the Advisor and I are the only trained adults and we
>no longer can qualify as a quality unit (as if I care, but I'm >not
supposed to reveal that because I'm a district flunkie <G>).
Get them all TRAINED, Utah! It won't hurt them, and it would
help out with that QU status!! *heheheheee*
>But we still don't appear to meet the criteria you gave above in
>total numbers of adults and especially, females.
Nope. If your Post decided to go out to Philmont, you will find
that you will need at least one more female adult to go with you. Now you
can "cheat" and get a parent to go, which would meet the
"dual-sexed, two-deep leadership" requirement, but a better way
would be to get a parent to serve on the Post Committee and
multiple her as a (Associate Advisor) AA.
>Also, you indicated in another (deleted) portion of your post
>that a person can multiple in the same unit (or maybe I >misunderstood you).
No misunderstanding. For instance, as Advisor, I can also serve
as Post Committee Chair. I don't recommend this, but I can do
it. My Associate Advisors can also multiple as a member of the Post
Committee and so can any consultants to the Post. In new
smaller units, that's how all of the positions are "filled on
paper"....by multipling the three "key positions" against
all of the other positions that need to be filled until the
unit can get large enough to get other adults to fill the
"multiple" roles.
>We were told that the CR is the only adult who could multiple
>in the same unit. Maybe you can clarify that plus add any >insight to our
present situation (but please do NOT suggest that >I get other adults
trained -- that won't work -- don't even ask >why not!).
Too late. I already did earlier! *heheheee*
What I've got here is that EVERYONE can multiple in the Post with
the EXCEPTION of the Chartered Organizational Represenative, whom
can only multiple as a Committeemember in his or her own unit.
Kathie wrote earlier that even that cannot be done, and since I do value
Kathie's research, leave the CR alone.
This is why I stated earlier that although you can get by with as
little as three (five in a co-ed post), you really need SEVEN to
"cover all of the bases" and to avoid the registration problems
you're having.
What I think is doable is to find another parent of an Explorer
and get them the Fast Start Exploring kit. Then, have your
District or Council's Exploring training team to come to *your*
Post and your Post HOSTS the Exploring Leader Training course and the Youth
Protection Program training. That way, you get everyone associated with your
Post trained including your new parent-leader; other Explorer Posts nearby
that were "intimidated" by going to perhaps the Council office or someplace
waaaaayyy out of the way get the training they need, and another training
session gets credited!
To answer your lack of adults, Utah, I would ask your Chartering
Partner to see if there's anyone that likes to participate in
some of the outdoor activities that your Post is involved in, and
ask them to serve as Committee members or Consultants.
Now, let's see if I can figure out where I went offtrack:
I gave an example which Jim and someone else (can't recall whom right now)
stated that "perhaps you're mistaken", whereby the CR
of the Post serves as Assistant Scoutmaster for a Troop in which
he is NOT the CR of. Here's what I wrote:
"The President of Combined Communications of Western Kentucky,
Vince Collins, serves as Chartered Organizational Representative
of Explorer Post 000 (Communications), and because of his past
Scouting experiences with Troop 000, serves as Assistant Scoutmaster to that
Troop."
Kathie says that under the 1993 version of the Rules and Regs,
Vince CANNOT do this. He must ONLY serve as CR and cannot do
anything but CR. I have a lot of faith in Kathie, so she's
right and Vince CANNOT do this.
"His Vice President for Public Service, Janice Moore, serves as
Advisor of Explorer Post 000 (Communications) and as Chartered
Organizational Representative of Troop 000."
Her primary (paid) position is Advisor, and because Vince
appointed her as CR for the Troop, she is multipled as CR. I
haven't seen this work in actaulity, and I don't see anything
in the materials I've been pouring over since you posted your
question. However, there is much disagreement that says that
even this cannot be done and that a Primary leader cannot
multiple as a CR for another unit. I don't see anywhere where
it's stated as such, but everyone's been pointing back at
the 1993 version of the Rules and Regs (which I'll be getting
a copy soon).
If you looked at Utah's "diagram" above, you will see that
that's EXACTLY what's going on with his unit:
>IH/CR (same person) -- unpaid -- primary in pack
"There is a policy (and it's late, so I'll have to confirm this
in the morning) that says that the COR CANNOT SERVE as the
primary leader (in this case Explorer Advisor) while being COR
too. Vince CANNOT serve as both Advisor and as COR...he's going
to have to decide which is more important to him (and his firm)."
I meant here, of course, Janice, not Vince. But it goes the same
way if Vince was doing both positions. MY copy of the Rules and
Regs clearly state that the Chartered Organizational Represenative
CANNOT serve also as a primary leader or assistant.
"There's NOTHING wrong, however, with Vince and Janice serving as
associate leaders or as members of the committee (the COR should be a
non-voting member of the Committee anyways)"
No, if "associate leaders" are Consultants. If "associate leaders" are
"Associate/Assistant Advisors", YES THERE IS.
[Consultants: (Exploring) Registered adults which assist the Post Advisor
and President on various tasks (for instance, in my Post, we registered our
District Executive as a Consultant so that she could serve as the
"professional advisor" for the Post). Yes, those Consultants *are*
considered as "additional adults" for the purpose of taking Explorers out
overnight because they are registered with the unit].
";however, Utah, both Vince and Janice has to remember which role they are
PRIMARILY serving (for Vince, it's COR of Post 000; for Janice, it's Advisor
of Post 000. Just because Janice *chooses* to become the Advisor instead of
the COR does NOT resolve her from COR responsibilities with the Troop".
Again, the COR is considered for the purposes of "counting" as
a District/Council member-at-large, and should not be considered
in the "running leadership" of the Post or Troop (or Pack).
This I agree with several that have stated this point.
"Now, most District Executives will never let this happen, whereby the head
of a chartered partner and someone else in the same chartered partner serves
as COR of another unit at the same time. They would rather have Vince to
serve as COR and ONLY COR of BOTH Explorer Post and Scout Troop; but it's
Vince's call as the head of the organization supporting the Post and Troop
to make. Some folks want their hands on EVERYTHING that is going on; others
would rather have others to make the decisions and to let him (the boss)
know what they did and if there's any problems that he or she should be
aware of."
I stand by this, Utah (and others) 100%. In the "best case",
what we're discussing here would NEVER HAPPEN. Vince would be
the COR and ONLY the COR of both Troop and Post; Janice would have
to serve as Advisor only (and maybe as Committee Chair of the Troop, if
Vince is wanting to maintain a "hold" onto his company's
Troop) and the District professional team would have to work
hard along with the organizer of the new Post to make sure that
situations like this don't happen.
I offered the examples only to illustrate some rather "creative
staffing" which would tend to meet the BSA's leadership and
staffing requirements. Some of you stated that it would not,
and I'll have to take your words on it....I've never stooped to
doing that, because as long as there's parents, a chartered
partner organization and other community agencies to assist, there's going
to be a full (legitimate) staffing.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and thoughts, and thanks
Utah, for following-up your post with this one to clarify the
questions!
Settummanque!
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle) (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Servics of Kentucky (502.826.7046) __)_
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