Re: Looking for the Uniform Police
(no name) ((no email))
Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:54:25 -0600
Steve in Newark wrote:
From my earlier posting:
>> No. The BSA is NOT the military, but it DOES have a "rhyme and reason" for
>> it's uniform usage and insignia location...so much so, that it has a separate
>> publication, called the BSA Insignia (Control) Guide, which has been
published
>> since 1972 to assist Scouts and Scouters in wearing their uniforms the
>> "right way".
>Note that the pub is called a guide, not a law or regulation..By the
>way, what is thepenalty for not following the guide to the letter and
>has it ever been enforced. As opposed to the military where you
>receive a monthly allowance for uniforms, the BSA does not have the
>luxury of this benefit.
Many of the BSA's "regulations" are called "guides". The problem of
"enforcement" of the policies, Steve, is that we're dealing with 337 local
Councils, which can place their OWN personal "spin" on those guidelines, at
the whim of the Council Scout Executive. For instance, while your Council
has special patches for their District volunteers to wear on the right
shoulder, your neigboring Council says "forget it...it's against the
"policies" of the BSA" and points to the Insignia Guide and a
place inside that states that "District insignia is considered excess insignia".
The first couple of pages in the Insignia Guide states how the information
contained inside it should be taken: as policy: (from the inside cover: "The
succeeding pages contain our major regulations taken from the *Rules and
Regulations* and policy. The succeeding chapters contain applications of
the regulations of the regulations to each program area. Neither the Rules
and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, the policy, nor the program
applications may be added to or changed in any way unless they are approved
by the national Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America through its
Program Group Committees."
That sounds and looks to me like a clear-cut set of "regulations".
>> >Second, if you give me any group of 100 scouts or scout leaders and I
>> >can virtually guarantee you that ALL will be out of uniform if we want
>>
>> I would take that bet, Steve. What do we bet on? CSPs?
>A close review of any issue of the Scouter Magazine would prove the
>point. Second place to look is any roundtable, next, troop meetings,
>and a really good source of creative uniform ideas is any jamboree or
>local camporee.
_Scouting_ sometimes, as we've talked here, DOES take some pictures of
Scouts and Scouters wearing whatever they want to wear to make the picture.
As I've stated here, while they are concerned with good uniforming, they are
more concerned with the illustration of a story or article instead. Scott
Daniels and company (at Scouting) don't have the time to correct
uniforms...and nor SHOULD they. That's the role of the COMMISSIONER and the
UNIT LEADER (the ones that SHOULD be maintaining the standard for the unit.
Whatever the unit leader sees the Commissioner wear, is what he or she will
wear; likewise, whatever the adult leader wears, that's exactly what the
youth members wear too!)
As far as camporees are concerned, yeah, I've seen some wicked looking
uniforming there too...but again, this is NOT EVERYONE as you stated above
but about roughly 2/3rds to a half of those in attendance are not in
"correct uniforming". The same I would hold true for any other Scouting
event or activity. I would state that MOST Scouters are concerned and
interested in knowing what they are supposed to wear and where it is they
are supposed to wear it at, than just in "throwing together a shirt to wear
to Scouts".
>> Council event will attend in as complete a uniform as they can personally
>> afford, with all insignia
>> correctly in place at the proper locations. Now, if you are going to go
>The key here as you mention is whatt they can afford. Personally, I
>have three sets of uniforms but thats a holdover from a habit I
>developed with my previous employer. As fast as junior high kids grow
>I don't expect most parents to buy their son's new or used pants every
>six months.
No, Steve, but the SHIRT is the most important thing to me, since the shirt
tells the entire "lifespan" of the Scout or Scouter. Nowadays, I don't
really concern myself with the pants anymore...they come in now three
variations, most of them don't fit most Scouters (including the majority of
female Scouters) and at a cost of $27 for a pair of cotton pants, or $38 for
the woolblend ones, are too costly for a lot of Scouters concerned with
putting food on their tables as well as helping others through Scouting.
>> yes...you will
>> have some discrepancies.
>Ah, you agree. And I say so what!. My disagreement is with the
>nitpicking uniform police who take issue with direction of knots and
>minor points that mean a lot to them but not to anyone else.
But the "direction of the knots" for instance, IS an important part of
wearing the item. Why wear a belt if you're NOT going to fasten it? Why
wear shoes if you're not going to tie your shoestrings? Yeah, it looks
"cool" but to others out there, you just look "sloppy". And that's how a
lot of Scouters look at those that decide to wear "their entire life story"
on their shirts, with little or no concern about where they wear it, how
they wear it, or even to which events they will wear it.
>> "referees". The Army's 3rd Infantry Regiment,
>> the "Old Guard", prides itself that no matter the size of the soldier, or
>> the sex,
>> that EVERYTHING is there in an uniform place, that EVERYTHING there has a
>> reason and
>> purpose and that EVERY PERSON wears the insignia in EXACTING detail.
> Although not a marine, the only organization I have ever seen who
>could wear the uniform with utmost perfection was the USMC. As for
>the rest, I've been to innumerable military installations and all you
>have to do is stand outside the BX or CHow hall to encounter infinite
>variations of the uniform of the day! It doesn't happen even in open
>ranks inspections prior to major parades. Been there...done that.
Same here. But...
>> There's a big difference between "exacting detail" and "identification".
>And that is the point, the uniform is for identification. (period)
>> The BSA DOES have that "formal regulation", Steve...it's called the Insignia
>> Guide, and it's available from your local Council office or from the nearest
>Again, you make my point, it is a GUIDE...Not at regulation.
Not according to the BSA. The Insignia Guide is considered POLICY.
>> worry about that question at all... *broad grinning, looking at Scout shirt*
>>
>> Seriously, Steve, whether you like it or not, the BSA is a uniformed
>> organization and wearing the uniform is a great part of the program. It
>> serves as the "billboard" to promote our program, as the "frame" in which a
>True, never did disagree with this point. I only take issue with the
>nitpickers who need to tune in on some of the more pressing issues
>facing our scouts like school, single parents, obsessive sports
>programs, and all the other issues which are robbing them of their
>youth and potential.
>>
>Mike, I have a personal challenge for you. I would be willing to send
>you a free CSP (or maybe 2) if you could boil your signature block
>down to two lines (we all have it memorized and you've done a lotta
>stuff) and limit your posts to two pages. If you can do this for the
>next 30 days I will send you two Simon-Kenton CSPs.
Can't do it...especially after for the fourth time in three months, I've
moved my net address. I've boiled down my signature from eight lines to 6;
4 which are essential. You've got to know who I am; I'm writing to you from
a MCINET program, which strips EVERYTHING from each and every message I read
and reply to. The only way I know that this is even a Scouts-L message is
that I've followed the string here! You've got to know how to reach me,
electronically (yeah...three addresses, and I'm grateful to my wife for
having the forthought to establish more than ONE address, or else I'd STILL
be standing around here trying to find a cheap provider.)! You have to know
how to snailmail things to me if you care to (like those two CSPs)! Finally,
you need to know something about me (be glad, Steve, that you're getting the
SUMMARIZED version there...ask some that have been here back in the 10 or 12
line days)!!
As I've wrote before, I'm very conscienced about the number of lines I write
here, because in part now, I pay for the lines like several others do here.
However, there's not a good way I can summarize my feelings, what the BSA
says about the issue and to respond to you in the open otherwise; and not
*everyone*
(and I'm personally happy for this!) knows who signs their postings:
Settummanque!
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle) (
co-Owner, Blackeagle Servics of Kentucky __)_
174 Chapelwood Drive, Henderson, Kentucky 42420-5036 | ** |]
(H) 502.827.9201 (F) 502.826.7046 (W) 800.816.6746 coffee? anytime!
also via Blackeagle Services 502.826.7046 or 800.816.6746 /BlkeagleS@AOL.COM
(Email) blackeagle@hcc-uky.campus.mci.net/kyblkeagle@AOL.COM/mikewalton@GNN.COM
"Ask about Geoworks, Leaders' Online & visiting *your* place to talk Scouting!!!
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City | 
