Re: Knots for Youth members

At 10:26 PM 11/3/95 -0500, you wrote:
>OKAY! You guys are way too quick for me! The answer from the 1995 BSA
>Insignia Guide (#33064) for knots youth can wear is:
>
> Explorer Achievement Award knot, #05526, worn by Explorer or Scouter
> Heroism Award knot, #05020, worn by a member of the BSA
> Honor Medal knot, #05010, worn by a member of the BSA
> Hornaday Award knot, # not listed, worn by Boy/Varsity Scout, Explorer
>or Scouter
> Medal of Merit knot, #05025, worn by a member of the BSA
> OA Distinguished Service Award knot, #05528, worn by Scout or Scouter
> Quartermaster Award knot, #05009, worn by Sea Explorer or leader
> Religous Award knot, #05007, worn by youth member or Scouter
>
> If I counted right, that's eight, of which Cubs/Webelos can wear 4,
>Boy/Varsity Scout can wear 6, and Explorer/Sea Explorers could wear them all.
> Conceivably.

Add that Cubs/WEBELOS can wear the Hornaday Award BADGE, which is considered
a "knot" for the purpose of the discussion. Also there's a difference
between the YOUTH Religious Award knot and the ADULT Religious (Service)
Award knot.

>William J Turner stated that Explorers over 18 could not wear the rank badges
>or AOL badge. Is this in Explorer literature somewhere?

Nope, it's NOT in any of the Exploring literture, (I've been requesting with
each new revision that it would be entered, and the same answer is generated:
"We don't just have enough former Scouts in the Exploring program anymore,
Mike and therefore, it's not going to be mentioned except in the Reference
Guide.")

Explorers are counted as YOUTH members, and therefore CANNOT wear the adult
awards until they turn 21. I know that there's a difference between a 18 or
19 year old Explorer and a 18 year old Assistant Scoutmaster (and that's how
many Explorers get around this technicality!), but it's there in the
Insignia Guide
and also from your local Council. As I've written before, there are SOME
local Councils that have put aside this policy (the purpose is to keep
adults from seeking and wearing youth awards) and have allowed 18-21 year
old male Explorers that have earned Eagle or the Arrow of Light to wear
those knots instead of the cloth badges if they have a field uniform. Those
exceptions to policy are few and far between, however.

>BTW, I know it isn't Saturday yet, but my TDY trip was cut short and I caught
>an early flight home <g>.
>
>Next up (scratch your head again) - Are there any awards, for which there are
>knots but no other wearable badge/insignia? What is the precedence of the
>knots?

There's NO PRECEDENCE for the wearing of ANY knots...I have my 17 sewn in
the order that I've earned them, with additional "new ones" (for example,
the Hornaday knot which was issued way after I'd earned the medal in 74) at
the top.
The precedence listing which was released in 1973 was pulled in 1975 at the
request of many volunteers out in the field that felt the way I do: if you
choose to wear them, you should be able to decide which is the most
important, which are the least important, and which are NOT important to you
at all...and to wear as few or as many as you personally feel confortable
(and as uniform shirt would allow).

There are 10 awards which DO NOT have a "visable badge or emblem" which is
worn on the field uniform. These awards are presented with a tie-tac, a
plaque, certificate, or some other form of recognition. Off the top of my
head (I'm at work this morning, so I think that I've missed one in my count
of ten or eleven):

The District/Division and Commissioners' Awards of Merit have plaques and
certificates which cannot be worn at all. Same goes for the James West
Fellowship and the Professional Training Awards. These are just the
certificate and square knot (or in the case of the Professional Circle
Award, the certificate, square knot and small universal emblem for the knot).

The Spurgeon, Advisor/Service Team Key, Exploring Training Award, Whitney
Young Service Award and Exploring Achievement Award all are lapel
pins/tie-tacs -- NO medal is awarded. The Whitney Young Award also has a
plaque, and there's a plaque available for the Spurgeon Award (but those
lucite plaques are few and far between...I'm still trying to find one for
myself..they're no longer in the BSA's supply system.)

The Scoutmasters' Award of Merit consists of a 6-inch patch to be sewn on
the back of a jacket (ideally the red or blue jac-shirt) and a certificate.

One more question: Can anyone name the TWO square knots which can be worn
TWICE to represent TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AWARDS? (I'll give you a small
hint:
both knots can into existance with the "new program" in 1973.)

Thanks, Jim, for the square knot quiz. I posted a series of these about
three years ago (HEY!!! NO FAIR GETTING THE LOGS FROM BACK THEN AND FINDING
THE ANSWER OUT! *smiling*), but it doesn't hurt to get some more current
information on where the information can be found...especially since then,
we've added three more square knots (Hornaday, West and the Tiger Cub
Organizer/Leader).

I had a *small* disk crash last week (actually, one of our help desk
employees thought since he couldn't get access to Netscape on the main
machine, that there was something wrong with our helpdesk PC and decided to
reformat the hard drive! *yeah* *frown face*). As a result, my nice Web
page with all of the square knots illustrated in color (and full sized,
displayed the way they should go on the uniform shirts) was lost (along with
ALL of my mail over the past week and a half!). Good thing for backups....
what I'm going to do is to recomplete it this week, and then send it to the
U.S. Scouting Service's Web site to place it there until our server comes in
(the last word is now eight days). I'll let them leave it there for a month
or so, before I'll post it to our "coffee server" here (along with
everything else) and announce where you should point your browsers to. It
looks the *best* with the current version of Netscape 2.x.

I still need to borrow some knots to scan and add...when you see it, you
will definately see the difference between the ones that I've taken from the
Scoutmaster's Handbook and scanned and the "real McCoys" that I've taken
from my shirt, from my personal display, or from Scouters that have sent me
the knot along with an envelope so that I can shoot it back after I've
finished giving it some light. I still need a Cubmasters' Award and a
George Meany Award knot.
Send me email at the alpha.comsource.net address if you can help out!

Settummanque!
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle) (
Internet Operations Center Coordinator, CLR Technologies Inc. __)_
174 Chapelwood Drive, Henderson, Kentucky 42420-5036 | * | ]
(H) 502.827.9201 (F) 502.826.7046 (W) 800.467.4257 coffee? anytime!
also via Blackeagle Services 502.826.7046 or 800.816.6746 /BlkEagleS@AOL.COM
(Email) mwalton@alpha.comsource.net/kyblkeagle@aol.com/mikewalton@gnn.com
"Ask about Geoworks, Leaders' Online & visiting your place to talk Scouting!!"

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