Re: Insurance issues
Settummanque, the blackeagle (waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU)
Wed, 12 Jan 1994 23:35:25 CST
[ I know that Kathie answered this one a while back with some great and
factual information, but I wanted to update and advise the net on
somethings that I mentioned over the past summer which is now coming
to pass...]
Sam Richart <richart@SPK.HP.COM> writes:
(Christmas greeting deleted...thanks, Sam!!)
> During our 'Scouting for food' drive a Cub Scout ran across one of the
>busiest 2-lane streets in town and was hit by a car. The boy was seriously
>injured. Currently he is in a body cast up to his armpits and is only allowed
>to get 'up' a few hours of the day.
> The unit did all the right things leading up to the unfortunate event.
>A tour permit was filed, medical release forms were on hand, the units
>insurance policy was up to date and even a safety talk was given. From here
>it gets uncomfortable.
> Our Council does not have a policy for handling an incident like this
>and there are a few problems that have surfaced because of this.
Sam, let me explain a couple of things that Kathie didn't mention in
her great posting. First, NOT ALL LOCAL COUNCILS CARRY INSURANCE
THROUGH A INSURANCE PROVIDER. This has been true for several years
and although National's Risk Management Division is advising local
Councils to carry a substantial amount of insurance, many local
Councils have opted to "spin the wheels" and hope that they DON'T have
to pay out (or if so, a small amount).
Your Council, Sam, sounds like it lost this time around.
>The
>insurance policy is a second provider policy and has a limit of $6000(??).
>This was maxed out very soon after the accident. The driver's policy also
>paid (even though it was determined the driver was not at fault) about $25,000.
Most local Council's "contingency funds" have about $3-6M in them,
enough to make it through several large accidents with lots of
personal injury. But that's that larger places that can raise a
larger sum of monies.
>Unfortunately there are still medical charges that are accrueing and have not
>been paid. The Scout office is not saying a lot. I can understand this to a
>point. If we look on the card our car insurance company gives us for 'What to
>do in case of an accident', we cannot admit guilt or promise that 'my
>insurance will take care of this', only exchange concrete facts about the
>accident (names, phone numbers, insurance companies, etc).
The Scout Executive is probably sweating bullets right now, Sam. If
his local Council was self-insured, then the local Council could be
liable for a host of charges from the Scout for years to come. So,
naturally, he and the other professional members there aren't saying
anything that will sway a judgement.
>Not seeing any
>quick action from the scout office the mother has placed an attorney on
>retainer. The attorney has said (correctly so) that the insurance companies
>as well as any other bill collectors may go after the CubMasters Homeowners
>insurance, the Chartered Partner, the BSA, and anyone else that may have any
>responsibility in this incident. This statement has been shared with other
>scout leaders, many of them are scared and have vowed not to sign any more
>tour permits.
NOW. This is where Kathie came in and told you and everyone about the
difference between the BSA's LIABILITY insurance policy, which covers
_negligence_ in the performance of our duties in Scouting, and the
PRIVATE PARTIES (either Alexander and Alexander, Mutual of Omaha,
AFLAC, or self-insurance depending on the local Council's contract or
agreement with those carriers) SICKNESS AND ACCIDENT INSURANCE which
covers _medical_expenses_for_accidents,_sickness_,_or_death_and
_dismemberment_.
The BSA picks up the tab for the multi-million dollar liability
insurance fund and it is paid out of the National pool. The local
Council pays for their own accident insurance unless a unit has their
own insurance, which as Kathie mentioned, is available and *should be
used* if you can get it.
The problem comes, as several wrote, in the principle of the "deep
pockets". Litagation, as my good friend Dennis Tiedt told me, can hit
long, wide and deep. In this case, the parents' lawyer can sue (in
this order):
*the "supervisor" of the child (the parent that was or should
have been chaporoning)
* the unit leader
* the chartered partner (representing the unit)
* the sponsers of the food drive (for instance, Kroger)
* the President of the local Council
* the Scout Executive of the local Council
* the local Council
* the National Council, BSA
According to Dennis, the lawyer can "pick and choose" which element(s)
have the "deepest pockets" (in other words, the most amount of money)
to give up, either in court or by private or public agreement. As a
lawyer and Scouter, Dennis didn't give any advice but a while back,
last spring as a matter of fact, he came across some information that
I shared with several at the Scouts-L Jamboree meeting.
After Pab Benford (hey Kilts!) commented on the fact that a local
Council wanted him to prove that he had enought personal insurance to
visit their camp with his family, I shared that the BSA's Risk
Management Division has asked local Councils to please ADVISE and
RECOMMEND to volunteers that they have personal liability insurance on
themselves at least to $2M. This created a lot of comments about
"Scouting being out of reach of most volunteers that can't afford
that...what happened to the seven million dollar insurance fund??"
I reassured those there that the fund is still there, but in this age
of "I stubbed my toe...I'll sue!", no volunteer is immune from SOME
lawyers that want to get the most for their client (and for
themselves) with silly lawsuits that have costed the BSA millions and
millions literally over the past eleven to fifteen years.
I mentioned that ten years ago, there was no such thing as Risk
Management at the national level and only those larger local Councils
had a Risk Management team in place, "just in case". Today, every
local Council has at least ONE professional and in most cases ALL of
the senior professionals are trained in Risk Management and that there
is a Risk Assessment and Management Team in every local Council if not
on paper in reality.
> I have always been taught that the council has an enormous
>insurance policy to protect the volunteers and chartered partners from this
>happening. This may still be the case, however, because the Scout office is
>gun shy to say anything, or doesn't know what to say, the lawyers word is
>traveling fast. I have confidence that the Scout office will come thru and
>put to rest any rumors, I have suggested that we change the schedule for the
>Roundtable in January and offer information about unit and council insurance
>policies, tour permits, and how to handle emergencies like this. I hope we
>will also have enough information to eliminate the rumors and settle this
>incident to everyones satisfaction.
I hoped that you have done this, not just from a PR standpoint, but
from a point of view of being responsible for TRAINING (and this is a
part of that training that I betcha was just "glossed over" by many.
Right, Kathie??) in your District.
> Where do I fit in? I am an Assistant District Commissioner and have
>just taken the pack that is involved under my wing( I will let my District
>Commissioner continue to handle this issue.). I am also acting unit
>commissioner for the pack my boy is registered in and fulfill the duties of
>assitant Committee Chair (we have over 80 boys in the unit). The CubMasters
>wife called me with the information from the lawyer and they are scared. They
>have passed the information from the lawyer on to the rest of the den leaders.
Again, as Kathie mentioned, as long as *everything* was done according
to what the BSA and the local Council required of the unit, volunteers
should NOT be fearful of being sued. The forms are signed, the
precautions are taken, and the event is staged in accordance with what
the BSA says should happen there. There's enough paper, according to
Dennis, that will stand up and defend a volunteer, starting with the
approved application, then the training course certification, and then
the approved tour permit and the permission slips....so, most
volunteers don't have ANYTHING to fear (except fear itself...had to
throw that in, to keep everyone awake)!
It is really unfortunate that this happened while the Scout was
collecting food for others. However, the unit should have insured
that EVERYONE was covered under some form of insurance (and NOT
relying on the "blanket policy") at the START of the charter year.
>This information does not include anything about our councils policy,
>unfortunately. I will have my hands full, how may other units are in the same
>situation?
>1. What Companies offer insurance to scout units? What is the coverage like?
> Please include an address if possible.
Alexander and Alexander, Inc.
1185 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10109
Mutual of Omaha Insurance Company
Boy Scout Division
Mutual of Omaha Plaza
Omaha, NE 68175
(I am still working on the AFLAC address...can someone please help out
here?)
Coverage depends on policy issued.
>2. What do other Scout Councils do in situations like this? What can be done
> to improve this process?
I can't answer this blanketly, but in my observation there are several
things that they SHOULD be doing:
* insist that volunteers either are covered under a unit policy (goes
back to the BSA's insistance that members serve IN A UNIT when all
possible, instead of primary registration with a District or a
Council) or to get personal liability insurance in the amount of two
million dollars or more
* insist that local Councils be INSURED through a reputable insurance
firm, instead of self-insurance at the local Council level.
* insist that ALL professionals seek personal liability ABOVE what is
available through the Scout Executive's Alliance and the BSA.
* insist that ALL Scouting events (even Scouting for Food!) is
insured. The cost of giving a dollar per Scout per event is low
compared to the thousands of dollars that have to be (and continues
to be) paid out in the form of medical or dental payments.
* practice SAFE ways of doing Scouting. Use low-impact camping,
which not only assists the environment, but also cuts down on the
amount of "accidental injuries" during a event.
>3. I am open to any advice.
Sam, that's the best I can do. Kathie's already given you and all of
us a great primer on the differences and coverages of the BSA's and
private carrier insurance. I've saved it, because it *will* come in
handy during upcoming Commissioners' Conferences.
Thanks, Kathie for this information.
Again, I am sorry that this comes late, but I wanted to make sure that
I had all of the information at hand before I posted (and I wanted to
make sure that someone else didn't give you this information before I
posted here).
Settummanque!
--
Settummanque, the blackeagle... (MAJ) Mike L. Walton (
AIS/MR Recreation Specialist, Lifeskills Inc. ___)_
(h) 502-782-7992 (f) 502-781-7279 (w) 502-842-2274 |-=-|]
3201-D Cave Springs Avenue -- Greenwood, KY 42104-4439 -=====-
WALTOML@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU (or via America OnLine) KYBLKEAGLE@AOL.COM
"Not speaking for Lifeskills, Inc. or WKU...but I do speak well!!"
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