RE: The REAL problems aboard ship
K. Wickward (kathwick@u.washington.edu)
Sun Jun 14 15:01:47 1998
Gordon,
You know, your letter reminds me of a rather famous experiment I learned
of as a psychology major in college. An elementary school class was split
into two groups and given a series of tasks - an art project, I believe.
The first group was given a reward for completing the task, the second
group was not. Much to the suprise of the researchers, the second group
was much more focused on the task, showed greater skill acquisition, and
generally appeared more motivated and interested in the activity than the
group that was "rewarded."
I sometimes wonder who the advancement system really serves, the youth or
the adults. With something as intrinsically fun as sailing, don't we take
something out of it by insisting on advancement? Advancement, to work,
needs to be understood a lot better than it is, and if indeed we are using
it as "bragging" rights for adults ("My ship has three quartermasters."),
we are using it incorrectly.
On the other hand, advancement is a great way to structure learning,
especially for a larger group, where we may not know everyones skill level
without some sort of "rank." Also, every sailing club I know of has some
sort of rank qualifiers that "graduate" people to more responsible, more
exciting privileges with the craft - i.e. the UW Yacht club only lets
those of a certain rank take keelboats out on their own into more open
waters. Sailing is both the reward and the way to get to the reward, if
you catch my drift.
Honestly, the 19 year old has to go. But I think this list is well served
by your insights about how a good program can run NOT like the Navy. If
people want a Navy program, they can join the Sea Cadets. Boy Scouting
was never, never meant to be a military organization in the US, not even
really in England. Thanks for your comments.
Kathy Wickward
Seattle, WA
Ship 88
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Cooke, Gordon x01243e2 wrote:
> I come from a ship of similar make up. There were only about 5 of us
> that were active when I was there but we did have a good time. We were
> all close friends who had brought each other into the ship. We werent
> driven by trying to make rank. To be honest we didnt wear uniforms and
> very seldom saw the sea scout book except over the winter when the
> skipper pulled it out to use the diagrams to show us something.
> This may sound completely awfull- "My goodness! They didnt wear
> uniforms! Didnt work for rank!" (I can hear some teeth grinding out
> there) but we DID learn stuff. I ought to go back and try and find out
> what rank I could be right now.
> We all just wanted to go out on the river and sail- so once a
> week thats what we did. We sailed on a 24' 1962 O'Day moored on the
> hudson river. Out of necessity we learned how to row (the only way to
> get to the boat) the skipper would skipper the boat- give us
> instructions- but he always explained how and why he was giving orders.
> He would give someone the tiller and come up to show someone who didnt
> know- how to rig up the Jib. Ussually we showed whoever was new how to
> do it. We all learned by doing.
> Then every now and then the adults would go out on a boat one of
> them owned and put us on the ship by ourselves. They would keep an eye
> on us and get some good chuckles. We fumbled at first trying to decide
> who was in charge and what we wanted to do. But we were always proud of
> ourselves for being able to do it when we came in- picked up the mooring
> on the first try and had a good time.
> I even remember one time one adult took a new fender and threw
> it over board. He then sat back and said- "hey guys- thats my new $30
> fender- go get it!" and sat down to watch. It took two passes but we
> picked it up. Deffinately good practice.
> So we may not have worked out of the book. We definately were
> not driven by advancement and badges. We wanted to sail and learn how
> to do it. Thats just what we did. This summer I am getting the boat I
> used to sail on because the ship had a newer one donated. I dont have
> any worries about going out because I know what Im doing. To me the
> goal of scouting has always been education and fun-- not advancement.
> Advancement is ment to be a motivator but if you dont need- dont use it.
> You could try keeping track of what people have learned and awarding
> them badges when they earn them. Maybe your ships members dont wnat to
> earn stuff and just want to learn some skills and have fun together.
>
> I hope this gives some ideas you can take to your ship. Good luck!
>
> Buddy Cooke
> Ship 168
> Post 2609
> Troop 68
> Hudson Valley Council, NY
>
>
>
> > Normally, I'm not one to air the dirty linen but I guess I have to,
> > since basically I'm asking for ideas relating to my feeling as to a
> > lack
> > of personal success with my ship and how to make it better.
> >
> > Background - FORGET IT! I just wrote three paragraphs and it started
> > sounding like I was looking for a pat on the back for the tons of
> > thankless hours I've put in.
> >
> > Current - I have been a Mate for two years and Skipper of this ship
> > for
> > three. I am a seven day a week Skipper. Membership is adults 4 youth
> > 8(6
> > male,2female). I have one Mate(great guy). We have trained the youth
> > officers in leadership and planning skills and we function as advisors
> > not dictators. We try to ask them questions to consider when they are
> > working an issue and occasionally have to remind them of the rules
> > relating to various things and put our foot down. We have a ship
> > membership meeting twice a month and a Quarterdeck meeting once a
> > month.
> > We(one youth and one adult per boat)race a couple Cal 20 sail boats
> > each
> > week(other youth waiting till schools out). We just had a Memorial Day
> > weekend cruise at Catalina Island and are planning to go back next
> > weekend. We have a once a month vessel maintenance day and a half day
> > harbor trash cleanup day. We have a 32' Grand Banks Trawler, six cal
> > 20
> > sailboats, a whaler tender, small sailing dingies, and just purchased
> > 5
> > double kayaks.
> >
> > Problems -
> >
> > 1. Oldest youth age 19 was only youth under old skipper and opposes
> > authority, advancement,and is really only around because he's dating
> > one
> > of the girls. We have unsuccessfully tried to give him leadership
> > opportunities.He sets a bad example and have discussed this with him.
> > Other youth follow his lead. The Charter Rep. wants to kick him out.
> > Now
> > I've got another boy(Mate's son) dating the other girl. They really
> > resist supervision but I have Capt. Blhye about two deep, adult female
> > attendance and especially not dissapearing, which hasn't gotten me the
> > good guy award.
> >
> > 2. Membership recruitment - We have posted flyers all over the city
> > and
> > at the local schools. I think it's all about really getting the
> > message
> > out but flyers aren't it.
> > We attended the area Boy Scout roundtable(Scoutmasters meeting)they
> > suggested we put on a boating day so at the local yacht club, we put
> > all
> > kinds of boats in the water to take scouts out in the harbor, bought
> > food for a barbeque and NOT ONE Scoutmaster or youth atteded. I
> > haven't
> > spoken to them since.
> >
> > 3. Rank advancement - Two of eight still havn't passed apprentice
> > after
> > a year (one is my Mates son). The rest are Apprentice. I thought about
> > incorporating Ordinary Rank training into our 7 day summer cruise
> > balanced with the fun stuff but there is only a limited time. We have
> > scheduled classes on these subjects but nobody is interested. Some one
> > on one has worked but too time consuming. How can I make this training
> > fun, time effective, and entice them to attend. Food won't do it!
> >
> > 4. Training - I asked the youth if they wanted to go to Rendezvous
> > this
> > year and told them that I felt every one of them could go and getting
> > a
> > passing score on whatever the planned to compete in. They initially
> > felt
> > it should be a fun outing. I did not want to take them if they don't
> > practice because I'm not going to take them anywhere to fail or waste
> > alot of ship funds. After a discussion they decided that they did want
> > to go and needed to schedule regular practice to be able to do well.
> > No
> > practice days have been set. I will keep reminding them about time
> > slipping away.How do these other units get so well trained?
> >
> >
> > It seems the only thing they are really interested in is getting away
> > from adults (including us)and having fun.
> >
> > I would be the immediate hero if i were to announce NO training, no
> > work
> > details, no vessel maintenance, and no environmental harbor cleanup.
> > This to some degree is the mantra of the 19 yearold and his mother who
> > always reminds us that this is NOT the Navy or Coast Guard.
> >
> > I have discussed the breakup of Exploring with the whole ship and
> > informed them that our Chartering Organization and myself have no
> > intention of breaking away from the 26 year charter as a traditional
> > Sea
> > Scouting Unit and degrade itself to a sailing social club. This may be
> > the opportunity for the youth and parents that would like to be "just
> > social" to do so if they can find a sponsor.
> >
> > When I get tough on them and start forcing them to do their stuff they
> > rebel, when I advise them and give them their lead, it is painfully
> > slow
> > or never gets done. This balancing act is my eternal dilemma.
> >
> > I guess I would be referred to as pretty tough if you asked the
> > majority
> > of youth and some parents and not tough enough if you asked other
> > adults.
> >
> >
> > Any ideas on these subjects?
> >
> > PS please excuse the typing, I just had eye surgery and can't see too
> > well yet.
> >
> >
> > Kevin Buffington
> > Skipper
> > SES 618
> > Redondo Beach. Ca
> > Ship Home Page http://home.earthlink.net/~bk618/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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