Re: Advancement Transfer Question

> From: Bob Morehead <rmorehead@nls.net>
> Date: Monday, October 19, 1998 1:46 PM
>
> Wow, Bruce! To say that I was advocating the abdication of
responsibility
> is a little harsh!

Well, all I did was ask a question, although I do believe that to make a
decision SOLELY based on the Scout's word WOULD be an abdication of
responsibility, and a step we don't accept anywhere else along the
advancement trail. See my post comparing this situation to a merit badge
partial completion. If you considered the question a little harsh I
apologize.

What I was really saying is that while we don't do the
> Scouts any favors by blowing off requirements, I don't think we benefit
them
> by subjecting them to an aura of suspicion and mistrust. I truly
think a
> transferred Scout has sufficiently demonstrated Scout Spirit by the fact
> he's on his last merit badge for life. He didn't earn all the others
and
> serve his period of responsibility by being spiritless! While there's
> always the possibility his last Scoutmaster was a fool, I think it
remote
> and we serve the boy much better by giving him the benefit of the doubt
and
> showing a little trust!

Well, I disagree that wanting to have first hand knowledge is a sign of
doubt and distrust. Again, you are casting this in a confrontational mode
and I truly believe it can and should be handled without confrontation. I
doubt that Johnny would have any problem with a new SM who sat down with
him and explained that, before he signed of Scout Spirit, he would like to
get to know him a little better, and maybe inquire of those who knew him
in his old troop. Properly explained that would be in both of their best
interests. I just received an email describing a Scout who left a troop
and submitted three merit badge cards to his new SM (for Eagle required
badges) with the forged signatures of supposed counselors. The new SM
called the old unit to check and the fraud was discovered. I'm sure,
however, that had this Scout been asked whether he had displayed Scout
Spirit he would have sworn to it. If there are no skeletons in closets
then there would be no reason for the delay creating any sort of problem.

So, as I understand your paragraph above you wouldn't even attempt to
contact the old SM? Because, if you do, or ask others who know the young
man, then you are not relying strictly on his statement that he has Scout
Spirit, and you are establishing your comfort level based on third party
information. That I would have no problem with, but just having the Scout
tell me he has Scout Spirit would probably not do it for me. (It might
just take me one SM conference to get comfortable, or it might take me
longer, but I WOULD have to be comfortable before I signed it off.)

> While I agree with this in principle and I certainly can't find fault
with
> getting to know a new boy better, in practice we end up forcing the
transfer
> to wait unnecessarily for no other reason that we find him
untrustworthy.

Not because we find him untrustworthy, but because we don't know him. If
a student just transfers in to a new high school in his senior year, can
he expect his NEW guidance counselor to immediately write glowing
recommendations for him because he says he deserves them? Or would he
wait to get to know the student, or contact the old school, or do some
other checking? It is the same here. Signing SS is a recommendation.

> We are presuming him to be Spiritless until he proves he has Spirit!
Call
> it naivete, but I prefer not to live in that world. Let's trust the
boys
> and the judgement of their previous leaders at least until they give us
a
> concrete reason not to!

But we don't know the judgment of the previous leader unless we talk to
him. If we talk to him we are not relying on the Scout. For all you know
this Scout might have been thrown out of the previous troop, although he'd
never tell you. Call me a cynic, but I have MUCH more faith in my OWN gut
evaluations of people than I do in the ability of most other people to
make those evaluations. (I think most people feel that way, btw.) So, it
is important that I have formed that evaluation before I commit.

--
Bruce E. Cobern
mailto:bec@pipeline.com

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