Re: SCOUTS-L Digest - 5 Aug 1998 to 6 Aug 1998
Cann, David E (CANN@BATTELLE.ORG)
Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:39:41 -0400
PLEASE STOP SENDING THIS DIGEST. I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO READ IT ANY MORE.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Automatic digest processor [SMTP:LISTSERV@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU]
> Sent: August 07, 1998 1:00 AM
> To: Recipients of SCOUTS-L digests
> Subject: SCOUTS-L Digest - 5 Aug 1998 to 6 Aug 1998
>
> There are 50 messages totalling 1750 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Scouts Who Don't Care
> 2. I lost my temper....mea culpa (long) (2)
> 3. signing on
> 4. Electricity Merit Badge Problems
> 5. new Eagle requirements
> 6. annual pack planning
> 7. Committee Meeting Agenda
> 8. <No subject given>
> 9. Leave No Trace & Climb on Safely Programs (3)
> 10. Historic Trails in/around Washington D.C.
> 11. (Natasia, must get Moose and Gofer)
> 12. Scouting Software
> 13. Goshen family camp
> 14. I lost my temper ...
> 15. Confusion on MB changes (4)
> 16. Earning merit badges on the internet.
> 17. Webelos (5)
> 18. Eagle MB's
> 19. bolo ties (& note on push-ups)
> 20. Fwd: Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
> 21. Eagle required - cont.
> 22. Another Song Snippet from Ancient Memory (2)
> 23. Scouts get heroism award: Oregon shooting
> 24. Minimum requirements are the source of mediocraty.
> 25. bolo ties
> 26. Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
> 27. All Praise Randy Finder and Scouts-L!!!
> 28. Eagle requirements additional (2)
> 29. Not enough Room
> 30. Indoor Climbing
> 31. Goshen Scout Camp (2)
> 32. Brownsea
> 33. Hazing
> 34. Ham Explorer Posts
> 35. For the record
> 36. Minimum requirements are the source of mediocrity.
> 37. SCOUTS-L Digest - 4 Aug 1998 to 5 Aug 1998
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 02:32:10 -0400
> From: "Anthony J. Mako" <ajmako@NLS.NET>
> Subject: Scouts Who Don't Care
>
> I encountered a rather nasty situation at our meeting tonight. I have two
> Scouts who are brothers. One, the youngest has ADD and occasionally shows
> signs of Torretts. His brother is older by two years. Both have very
> little
> self-discipline, pay no more than lip-service to Scouting ideals, and have
> no respect for peers or adults (including their parents). To some they may
> sound like lost causes, but I have never felt that way. At least until
> this
> evening. For the most part, they have shown improvement since they joined
> the troop. The older of the two even showed signs of some excellent
> leadership qualities at summer camp.
>
> I have managed to calm down the younger Scout over the last couple weeks,
> but I still have to watch him like a hawk to ensure he doesn't try to walk
> home if he becomes irritated. The older Scout has recently shown more
> interest in Scouting, but has also shown a tendency to be more violent
> toward his brother. This evening, on two occasions, myself and one of my
> SAs
> attempted to talk to this Scout about his violent outbursts and were
> totally
> ignored. After the second occasion, I quietly mentioned to the Scout that
> the SA wanted to talk to him and was answered with "No, I don't want to."
>
> As we were cleaning up after the meeting (after at least two more attempts
> to stop his activities) I confronted him the only way he left for me.
> Directly, and openly in front of several other Scouts. I was calm, but
> firm,
> and explained to him that the next time I caught him hitting his brother
> (or
> anyone else for that matter) his parents would be called. His response was
> "I don't care." I am nearly at a loss with this Scout. I don't want to
> give
> up on him because I've seen what he's capable of. I also don't want to
> give
> up on his brother, but all indications are that if one goes, so does the
> other.
>
> Right now, I'm trying to work out what to say to the boys' parents as I
> feel
> the next step is to meet with them and talk about the situation. My
> problem
> is that I've never been in a situation quite like this before. I've dealt
> with a lot of "problem" Scouts before but none like this. Of course, my
> problem is complicated by the fact that I don't want to give up on this
> boy.
> So, here I am asking the list for any ideas.
>
> YIS
> Anthony J. Mako, ajmako@nls.net
> Scoutmaster, Troop 381
> http://members.aol.com/Scouts381/
> "Home of the Unofficial Boy Scout Desktop Theme!"
> Great Trail Council - Akron, Ohio
>
> "I used to be an Eagle (C-7-97), but I'll always be an Eagle (1981)"
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:44:36 -0700
> From: John Durbetaki <JohnDurbetaki@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: I lost my temper....mea culpa (long)
>
> Auntie Beans wrote a bunch of stuff...
>
> Well, sounds like a boy or two I had at camp.
>
> >So my question: Do I
> >1) Submit my resignation for resorting to physical actions in a moment of
> heat?
>
> No, you shouldn't do it again, but it is not a resignable offense.
>
> >2) Stop being so hard on myself and try to forget it even though I know
> the boys won't?
>
> Yes, stop being so hard on yourself, but don't forget it. Turn it into a
> lesson, a campfire chat. Ask the boys how they would have reacted, what
> they think might work, what went wrong, how they can help.
>
> >3) Bring it up in Sept when the troop restarts?
>
> Yup, talk about it. He certainly was being difficult, but there may be a
> need for 1 on 1 attention and his parent might need to attend camp in
> the future. If they are willing, they can do so.
>
> >4) Apologise again to his parents (who are wonderful people and wake up
> each day saying "Today will be different" with this boy <G> Really. )
>
> Not needed, the mom seems to have understood and certainly knows her
> son.
>
> >5) Or...?
>
> When one boy requires significant amounts of attention, beyond what your
> boy leaders and adults can manage, you must take steps to save the many.
> <Asbestos suit is now on, flame away> I had a boy at camp who threatened
> other boys with a knife (not just being careless) and told them he was
> praying for them to die. He was also throwing his knife into tents and
> casting his fishing pole with a treble hook in the camp site. He did
> alot more (I wrote a five page single spaced report on his escapades)
> and I made the effort to give him a new chance again and again. His dad
> showing up helped some, but dad is unreliable and there was a fight on
> the day before we left that this boy was involved in. At any rate, I
> found out that many troops have instituted a code of conduct which is
> used to help govern these type of things. For many types of problems,
> the punishment would be being sent home from the outing. In other cases,
> such as the threatening with the knife, it is expulsion from the troop
> (Harsh, yes, but if others are fearful for their lives and safety, you
> get rid of the safety problem). You are not a social worker, you are a
> Scouter. You volunteered to do this service to others. When it is too
> much to handle, get help (parents being there), send the boy home, do
> something. Grossly unsafe knife behaviour is a one time warning in my
> book. After that, the boy has lost the knife until we return from the
> outing. Tough if he won't complete the meritbadge, it is better than
> having to do real first aid.
>
> My advise, get the parent(s) registered and trained and attending
> outings with their son. Then as he grows and perhaps becomes more
> responsible, they can spend more time helping other boys.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:10:38 -0500
> From: Rodney Hughes <rohughes@COMP.UARK.EDU>
> Subject: signing on
>
> Hi,
>
> I seemed to have lost the directions of signing on someone to the list.
> Could someone help me out on this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rodney Hughes
>
> Rodney Hughes
> Scoutmaster, Troop 142
> Fayetteville, AR
> e-mail : rohughes@comp.uark.edu
> http://comp.uark.edu/~rohughes
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:51:30 -0700
> From: John Durbetaki <JohnDurbetaki@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: Electricity Merit Badge Problems
>
> Michael Kauffmann wrote:
>
> >An electrical engineer serving as a counselor for electricity
> >merit badge says the motor diagramed in the merit badge book
> >does not work. He's taken this to two other engineers at the
> >utility he works for but no one can figure out the problem.
> >Has anyone else run into this problem?
>
> Well, the motor is a classic 2 pole commutated DC motor. Maybe the
> utility engineers forgot how to deal with motors with commutators
> <grin>. At any rate, adjustment of the commutator is the hardest part,
> because it is draw to use a set of loops of the wire and those are
> harder to make than a cut bit of can wrapped on a fatter shaft (such as
> a bit of dowel or cork). The brushes are easier to adjust when the
> commutator is larger and smoother. But in the end, it does work.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:36:51 -0600
> From: Rik Bergethon <rberg@RMI.NET>
> Subject: new Eagle requirements
>
> In response to Larry Jones posting:
> He is 99% correct, let me just elucidate.
> The Safety Merit badge is not dropped, it just is not a required MB.
> Sports MB is not longer in the required option, but is now a regular
> optional MB.
> Personal Fitness is now required.
> Swimming, Hiking or Biking are grouped together as a "choice of"
> requirement.
> The Swimming MB requirements will be beefed up and the Second
> Class/First Class advancement will have more swimming and lifesaving
> parts for advancement. Now for the editorial: it looks like you may as
> well just teach the Swimming and Lifesaving MB's in the fall for
> advancement. This all kicks in Feb. 1, 1999 and there is only a 60 day
> grand fathering period, unless they advance one rank. It will greatly
> affect the Life Scouts who are just goofing off and not working on Eagle
> projects.
> Rik Bergethon
> "I used to be a fox..."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:12:05 EDT
> From: Roger Edington <RailwayRog@AOL.COM>
> Subject: annual pack planning
>
> Hello Everyone,
> Just got back on the list after being off for awhile.
> This will be my first year doing annual pack planning as Cubmaster. In the
> past the leaders just followed the previous year activities which means
> the
> program been the same every year for quite a while. Well this year
> hopefully
> from the good folks here at scouts-l I`ll find out what other packs out
> there
> do during the year. Just a rough idea of what your calender looks like
> would
> be great. Thanx
> Yours In Scouting
> Roger Edington
> Cubmaster Pk2
> Great South Bay
> Suffolk County Council
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:01:14 -0500
> From: Brian Watkins <brian.watkins@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Committee Meeting Agenda
>
> My Venture Crew / Explorer Post will be having our first committee
> meeting to go over the changes of the Explorer name to Venturing and to
> set up the official committee positions and other business. What I am
> looking for is a sample agenda outline to use on setting up our committee
> meeting agenda. I know it needs to have old and new business, but do I
> as an advisor need to make a short report? How do other posts do their
> committee positions and run their meetings? Feel free to email me off
> list no to load down the list.
>
> Brian Watkins, Venture Crew Advisor, Post 427
> Rock Climbing & Rappelling Instructor, COPE Facilitator
> Eagle Scout - 1982, NRA Instructor, Longhorn Council
> "I used to be a Bobwhite..." SC-377
> brian.watkins@juno.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:45:48 -0400
> From: Jerome J Phillips <hicap9@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: <No subject given>
>
> HELP!!!!
>
>
> Two weeks ago our church garage was set on fire, too bad they forgot the
> marshmallows. The real sad part is that ALL of our scouting equipment as
> well as our scouting history went up in smoke. Yes the church garage was
> underinsured and I am not sure how much of the $4200.00 worth of
> equipment I will be able to restore.
>
>
> "So, how can I help?"
>
> Gee, thanks! Since you asked, I could use a really good set of technical
> specifications and drawings for a pinewood derby track. I have tried the
> web but I could only find vague information. You know 32' long X 5'
> high at the start etc..
>
> We just re-started last year and although we have a small pack, we are
> strong in spirit. We haven't told the boys yet and I would like to break
> the bad news about the fire on our opening night. And as we all know,
> if you have something negative to say you should also say something nice.
> I would love to tell the boys that the Pinewood Derby that I promised
> last year that they would have this year will still be possible.
>
>
> Thank you in advance for any help.
> YIS YIC WWW
> please respond to;
>
> Jerome J. Phillips
> 46 South Third Street
> Coplay, PA 18037
>
> HICAP9@juno.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:43:57 -0400
> From: John Phil <johnphil@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
> Subject: Leave No Trace & Climb on Safely Programs
>
> Garfield is the new Cub Scout mascot, I've seen some drawings of him at =
> the Cub Scout Division at the National Office while I was there in early =
> July. Pretty Cute.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:13:39 -0400
> From: Dave Colangelo <dcolangelo@AMERITECH.NET>
> Subject: Historic Trails in/around Washington D.C.
>
> Hi All
> Our troop is planning a visit to the Washington, D.C. area next
> year. We'd like to spend a few days in the capitol and would like to
> catch another trail on the way to/from D.C.
>
> Any ideas/leads?
>
> Dave
>
> Clinton Valley Council, Michigan
> dcolangelo@ameritech.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:08:07 -0500
> From: Stuart D Snook <dchi72@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Leave No Trace & Climb on Safely Programs
>
> Garfield is going to be the official spokescat for the 1999 School night
> for Scouting.
>
> The preliminary stuff that I have seen (which is very little) is
> excellent.
>
> Stuart
>
> On Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:25:57 -0400 Charles Feller <ChasFeller@AOL.COM>
> writes:
> >August 5, 1998
> >
> >Hallo Scouters~
> >
> > Does anyone on this list know about the two new BSA programs:
> >Leave No Trace
> >patch program and Climb on Safely (similar to Safety Afloat), both to
> >be
> >released September 1st?
> >
> > How about the new Boy Scout Handbook and Scoutmaster's
> >Handbook to be release
> >in February 1999?
> >
> > And lastly, does anyone know about Garfield being adopted as
> >the new National
> >BSA mascot?
> >
> >Your phriend in Scouting~
> >CHARLES FELLER
> >
> >STOP
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:27:26 -0400
> From: Jerome J Phillips <hicap9@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: Re: I lost my temper....mea culpa (long)
>
> >So my question: Do I
> >1) Submit my resignation for resorting to physical actions in a moment
> >of
> >heat?
>
> ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> >2) Stop being so hard on myself and try to forget it even though I
> >know the
> >boys won't?
>
> The true measure of a person's character comes when they are tested under
> adversity. You were losing it (if any one out there says they never got
> to that point they need to look real hard at themselves.), tempers flare
> and the important thing is that YOU DID NOT PHYSICALY HURT THE BOY! You
> helped guide him to the right decision.
>
> >3) Bring it up in Sept when the troop restarts?
>
> Yes bring it up to the committee. Don't bring it up to the boys. There
> is value in the boys realizing that you are only going to take so much.
>
>
> >4) Apologise again to his parents (who are wonderful people and wake
> >up each
> >day saying "Today will be different" with this boy <G> Really. )
>
> You apologised once already. Do not reduce the intensity of your apology
> by repeating it. They heard you the first time. However try to work with
> them. Get the kid a mentor or find something for thim to do that he can
> relate too.
>
> I'm sorry I could go on forever. Some of these I learned myself some I
> have seen from the sidelines. Remember there is no generic solution to a
> situation like what happened to you. But, it's how you handle it that
> counts.
>
> >5) Or...?
> >
> >On or off-list, whatever you wish...
> >YiS
> >Auntie Beans
> >SA T44 Pocasset MA
> >Cape Cod & Islands Council
> >Abake MiSaNaKi Lodge #393
> >NSJ 1997 Nat'l Health & Safety
> >I useta be an Eagle...
> >'The staff is old and feeble, and we can sing no more,
> >So we're getting out of Gilwell while we can!'
> >NEI-188
> ><wahowland@aol.com>
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:00:35 -0600
> From: "James H. Moss" <JHMoss@LAWYERNET.COM>
> Subject: (Natasia, must get Moose and Gofer)
>
> I always wondered why that moose in the dining hall had a smile on it's
> face!
>
> Jim Moss
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:37:14 -0400
> From: Jo Ernst <njernst@LOGICSOUTH.COM>
> Subject: Re: Scouting Software
>
> Su,
>
> May I suggest that you go to the web page and download the demo copy? It
> is
> a fully functional version, it just limits the number of Scouts, Scooters,
> and activities you can input. It will be well worth your time. Import
> your
> troopmaster data and try it out. I think you will be favorably impressed.
> The way WinScout handles Eagle edits is a little different than
> TroopMaster.
> Keep in mind that this program is not yet a year old. Every problem I
> have
> brought to their attention (by e-mail or 888 number) has been fixed within
> 48 hours and an upgrade put on the web page. The "demo copy" you will
> download is the actual version. Once you purchase it, you will get a
> license number to enter instead of the word "demo". Then your Scouts,
> Scouters, and Activities are unlimited. Give it a try, you don't have
> anything to lose, and a bunch to gain. The benefits are to many to cover
> all at once.
>
> The URL is http://www.tpsoftwareinc.com/WinScout.htm.
>
> YIS,
> Jo Ernst
> njernst@LogicSouth.com
> SM Troop 813
> And a Good Old Fiesty Fox, too ...NE-VI-26
> Columbia, SC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stu Estrade <stuestrade@sprintmail.com>
> To: Jo Ernst <njernst@logicsouth.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Scouting Software
>
>
> >Jo, thanks for the information. One other question I thought of: does
> >WinScout have similiar advancement edits as TM, i.e, "Only Eagle
> >required merit badges remaining"?
> >
> >I'm waiting to see if Troopmaster will use one of the popular available
> >databases. What database does WinScout use? I am also waiting to see
> >the upgrade price. I aways believe that previous upgrade prices were
> >high for the improvements received.
> >--
> >Yours in Scouting,
> >Stu Estrade, SM and District Advancement Chair
> >Troop 230 Metairie LA http://bsa.net/la/t230/
> >"I used to be a Fox, SR-71, and a Staffer, SR-162 and SR-207, too"
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:02:26 EDT
> From: Sharon Hahn digest <Hahnhaven@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Goshen family camp
>
> Please send me the information also on the goshen family camp.
>
> Also, my Webelos 1 is at his first week of resident camp, this week. He
> is at
> Rock Enon in Winchester, Va.
> My husband just got home after spending 1/2 the week, and has had rave
> reviews
> of the camp and of my son enjoying it. I was rather leary as to whether
> it
> would work out, loosing stuff, homesick, heat and all the stuff we parents
> worry about, but much to my pleasure, it is going great!!
> He passed the swim test and is really enjoying the lake, loving the badge
> activities, nature education, is dressing in his uniform proudly. He is
> 9,
> and I am very proud of him.
> What a great company, BSA!
> YIS
> Sharon Hahn
> GS Leader
> Mom of Webelos 1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:13:49 -0400
> From: Doug Roach <djroach@IX.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject: Re: I lost my temper ...
>
> Wendie,
>
> No sweat, Auntie... you done good.
> This may very well be the occasion that this boy remembers 10 years from
> now as a real coming-of-age experience. Hey, we can hope, right?
> Like Bob Morehead so aptly put it:
> "...American parents, either convinced by pop psychology quacks
> that
> discipline is abuse or completely indifferent to their own
> responsibilities have produced an entire generation of kids who don't
> accept responsibility and see no reason to do as their (sic) told."
>
> While I'm not yet convinced that an entire generation is to be written
> off ;-) I do agree with his main point which is that the problem you
> elucidated is NOT yours... it's his and his parents.
> Your response to the torment that you iterated in your initial post was
> measured and tolerant. You gave the boy every opportunity to perform the
> functions on his own. The final event of the grabbing him by the
> shoulders and pointing him in the direction of his chore was nothing to
> be losing any sleep over. I daresay, many of us here would have lost it
> long before you did... (I suspect I would have...and it may not have
> been pretty.)
> While the response of the boy's mom was encouraging, this incident
> should nonetheless provide an excellent opportunity to reiterate to ALL
> the parents of the Troop that we aren't in the business of curing
> someone else's kid of his inadequate social skills. At the first
> parent's meeting of the year, I would relate the tale you told us (sans
> identification of the offender... as if they won't guess) and remind all
> present that such behavior will not be tolerated. That's standard
> procedure in our Troop-- particularly for the newer parents. If a boy
> exhibits such tendencies and such behavior throughout the year, he and
> his parents should be apprised that he is not welcome on such a trip as
> summer camp where mom & dad can't be called to pick him up. While a
> seemingly drastic measure, it should be the concern of all of us that
> one boy not be permitted to wreck the experience for the rest.
> Think about it. Of all the experiences of your summer camp week, what
> single event stands out as defining?
> It may not be pleasant, it may not be fair, but I would assume that
> little Montegue and his week-long antics may be what you remember about
> YOUR vacation week this year. Real pleasant, huh?
> How do you think the REST of the boys felt?
>
> YiS,
> --
> Doug Roach
> SA Troop 10 - South Florida Council - Miami
> Webgod: Troop 10 and Hurricane District
> http://beezer.med.miami.edu:8080/~djroach//
> "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
> stupidity."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:32:22 -0400
> From: Mark Lum <mark@LUM.NET>
> Subject: Confusion on MB changes
>
> Scouters:
>
> I'm confused about the Eagle Required changes. The grandfather period =
> was stated as form Jan 1 to Apr 1 1999. Does this mean scouts who =
> JOINED before then use the OLD Eagle MB requirements. And those JOINING =
> after Mar 31 use the new MB requirements? And those in between have a =
> choice? Or am I off-tracK?
>
> Rgds,
> Mark Lum
> www.troop55.org
> ASM Houston, TX
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:04:00 -0500
> From: Hal Dudley <wolfcsm@MAIL.N-LINK.COM>
> Subject: Re: Leave No Trace & Climb on Safely Programs
>
> If nothing else comes, you should be able to get the info from your
> professionals, when
> they return from this months all hands conference. They should have a lot
> of new info.
>
> Hal Dudley
> Killeen, Texas
>
> Charles Feller wrote:
>
> > August 5, 1998
> >
> > Hallo Scouters~
> >
> > Does anyone on this list know about the two new BSA programs:
> Leave No Trace
> > patch program and Climb on Safely (similar to Safety Afloat), both to be
> > released September 1st?
> >
> > How about the new Boy Scout Handbook and Scoutmaster's Handbook
> to be release
> > in February 1999?
> >
> > And lastly, does anyone know about Garfield being adopted as the
> new National
> > BSA mascot?
> >
> > Your phriend in Scouting~
> > CHARLES FELLER
> >
> > STOP
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:14:31 -0400
> From: Philip Fairbanks <pjf@PHILABS.RESEARCH.PHILIPS.COM>
> Subject: Earning merit badges on the internet.
>
> One of our local committee people has asked " Is it all right for a boy
> to
> earn required merit badges over the Internet"?
> The only stipulation I know about is that the councilor must be on the
> approved merit badge councilor list that is provided by our council. I'm
> looking for comments.
>
>
> Thanks
> Phil Fairbanks
> UC,MC
> Hudson River district
> Hudson Valley council
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:06:05 -0400
> From: "John R. Tudor" <tudorj@HCI.NET>
> Subject: Re: Confusion on MB changes
>
> I too am confused about the grandfather period. If my son stays on track,
> he will be one month and a few days short of the time served requirement
> for Eagle on April 1, 1999. What does this mean? Will he have to foollw
> the new program for required badges? Could someone give a full
> explanation. There are many others who would like some advance warning so
> they can make effective plans for the future.
>
> John Tudor
> Computer Services Technician
> Caldwell Community College
> 828-297-3811 ex 240
>
> mailto:tudorj@hci.net
>
> Alpha Pager 1-800-632-7423
> Mobile 1-828-443-1680
>
> On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Mark Lum wrote:
>
> > Scouters:
> >
> > I'm confused about the Eagle Required changes. The grandfather period
> was stated as form Jan 1 to Apr 1 1999. Does this mean scouts who JOINED
> before then use the OLD Eagle MB requirements. And those JOINING after
> Mar 31 use the new MB requirements? And those in between have a choice?
> Or am I off-tracK?
> >
> > Rgds,
> > Mark Lum
> > www.troop55.org
> > ASM Houston, TX
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:28:29 EDT
> From: Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Webelos
>
> In a message dated 98-08-04 21:55:37 EDT, you write:
>
> << Your memory is good...when the program changed in 1967, the Lion
> Badge was dropped and the previous WEBELOS Badge became the Arrow
> of Light. Later, in 1986, the BSA brought back the WEBELOS Badge
> as a rank, and created the present two-year WEBELOS Cub Scout
> program. >>
>
> In that case, my memory is apparently not so good! There was no Webelos
> badge
> for nearly 20 years? I remember working on the Activity Pins as a Webelos
> in
> the '70s, and getting my AOL, but...could this be why I don't remember
> earning
> that Webelos badge?
>
> Robert Gerhard
> Cubmaster & Webelos ADL, BSA Pack 83
> Co-Leader, GSUSA Cadette Troop 2825
> Fort Worth, Texas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:45:44 MDT
> From: Jon Dixon <dixonj@COLORADO.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Webelos
>
> > << Your memory is good...when the program changed in 1967, the Lion
> > Badge was dropped and the previous WEBELOS Badge became the Arrow
> > of Light. Later, in 1986, the BSA brought back the WEBELOS Badge
> > as a rank, and created the present two-year WEBELOS Cub Scout
> > program. >>
> >
> > In that case, my memory is apparently not so good! There was no Webelos
> badge
> > for nearly 20 years? I remember working on the Activity Pins as a
> Webelos in
> > the '70s, and getting my AOL, but...could this be why I don't remember
> earning
> > that Webelos badge?
>
> The Webelos badge existed in 1981 when I went thru the program (before
> the 2-year program was started). You earned both the Webelos Badge
> and the AOL in a single year, primarily by earning the Activity Pins.
> I'd detail more about what was required, but that book (along with my
> other cub books) is still at my parents' house.
>
> Jon
> --
> Jon Dixon
> dixonj@colorado.edu
> http://sandman.colorado.edu/~dixonj/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:51:03 -0500
> From: Terry Slade <TMSLADE@IPGATE.ACTX.EDU>
> Subject: Eagle MB's
>
> It really bothers me that some Scouts and their parents are
> worried about the new requirements coming out next year. Why
> should you just barely meet the requirements. I see so many
> scouts at their CoH's that just meet the 21 badges and no more. I
> love to see a scout so involved that when it comes time to earn
> their Eagle, they have 30 to 40 badges. Mine had 45 and boy were
> the young kids just joining impressed. The other two scouts at
> the CoH both had the minimum required and there was Michael
> with a full sash. He blew the requirements out of the water and
> now is on his fourth Palm. It kind of imbaressed the other two
> scouts and it should. Both were almost 18 years old and here
> was my kid at 15. Neither were members of the OA, mine was a
> Brotherhood member.
> What are we teaching kids these days? Just do enough to get
> by...or...don't go any further than you have to. Is this how we
> want them to treat their job or life in general? Don't go the extra
> mile and get a pay raise because you earned it, but get the raise
> because of the cost of living increase went to everybody. Do only
> what is required to get to Eagle now and if the rules get changed,
> your screwed, and you feel like you have to start all over.
> Teach the scout to go after ALL the required merit badges and
> use the extras as one of those optionals. Don't rush a bunch of
> scouts through at the end of 98 so that they won't have to make a
> few easy changes in 99. What a boy learns in his early years is
> how a boy will act as a man later in life.
> I hope that I don't get too many flames from the list for my
> beliefs. I got a bunch for my "hazing" stance. If you think that
> singing for an item you lost at dinner is hazing, try becoming a
> "Shell Back" in the US Navy. If you don't know what a "Shell Back"
> is and how to earn this title, don't talk to me about hazing.
> YiS The MAD Texan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:54:29 MDT
> From: Jon Dixon <dixonj@COLORADO.EDU>
> Subject: bolo ties (& note on push-ups)
>
> My troop has decided to go with bolo ties for the official troop
> neckware, so I need to find a place to get some made up (preferably
> not too expensive). If anyone has recommendations for companies to
> use, I'd appreciate hearing them.
>
> And as I was looking through the March-April 1998 issue of Scouting
> for ads about bolos, I noticed a short bit in the letters on hazing.
> At the very end of the "official" reply to the letter, it quotes the
> SM Handbook as saying "Corporal punishment and hazing are not
> permitted." It seems to me that push-ups, whether or not hazing, are
> certainly corporal punishment. So by that standard they are not
> allowed by the BSA.
>
> Jon
> --
> Jon Dixon
> dixonj@colorado.edu
> http://sandman.colorado.edu/~dixonj/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:04:04 EDT
> From: "Dr. Bob Wilborn, D.C." <CHIROBOBDC@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Fwd: Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> --part0_902412245_boundary
> Content-ID: <0_902412245@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> For those who are not on AOL, I thought that this might be of interest.
>
> Dr. Bob Wilborn
> Troop 226, Tonkawa district
>
> --part0_902412245_boundary
> Content-ID: <0_902412245@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
> Content-type: message/rfc822
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> Content-disposition: inline
>
> From: AOLNews@aol.com
> Return-path: <AOLNews@aol.com>
> Subject: Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:11:58 EDT
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
>
> .c The Associated Press
>
> SPRINGFIELD, Ore. (AP) - As a Boy Scout, Jake Ryker swears to an oath
> that
> includes ``to help other people at all times.''
>
> That's what the 17-year-old student was doing when he overcame a bullet to
> the
> chest and tackled a gunman who had opened fire in his high school
> cafeteria in
> May.
>
> For his actions, Ryker on Monday will receive the Boy Scouts of America's
> highest award for heroism, the Honor Medal with Crossed Palms.
>
> Four others, all Boy Scouts, including Jake's 14-year-old brother, Josh,
> quickly piled on the alleged gunman, Kip Kinkel. They will receive
> scouting's
> second-highest heroism award, the Honor Medal.
>
> It will mark the first time in the 88-year history of the Boy Scouts that
> five
> heroism medals have been awarded at one time, said Tim Parker, national
> spokesman for the Scouts.
>
> Two students died and 22 others were wounded in the May 21 shooting
> rampage at
> Thurston High School. Kinkel, 15, also is accused of shooting and killing
> his
> parents the day before the cafeteria rampage, and leaving their house
> rigged
> with bombs.
>
> Jake Ryker, a 6-foot-4 wrestling star at Thurston, said he had been shot
> but
> acted after he noticed the shooter had come to the end of a clip of
> ammunition.
>
> Since the Honor Medal with Crossed Palms was established in 1938, only 125
> have been awarded.
>
> AP-NY-08-06-98 0708EDT
>
> Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the
> AP
> news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
> distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
>
>
>
> To edit your profile, go to keyword <A HREF="aol://1722:NewsProfiles">
> NewsProfiles</A>.
> For all of today's news, go to keyword <A HREF="aol://1722:News">News</A>.
>
> --part0_902412245_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:02:25 -0400
> From: "Lisa Conatser (740) 593-1004" <CONATSER@OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
> Subject: Eagle required - cont.
>
> My interest in upcoming changes is so I can tell my Life Scout son that
> while I am very pleased that he took both Swimming and Sports, he now
> should
> get started on Personal Fitness too. And for any other kid in his troop
> who took what was at the time "enough" or "more than enough" to realize
> that
> the rules are changing and to get busy.
>
> My sons are under no "deadline" to complete Eagle, but there are quite a
> few
> kids who will have many more than 21 merit badges and right now Personal
> Fitness
> just isn't one of them, but Safety and Sports are...
>
> I have not heard anything of these upcoming changes except on this list.
> The first our SM heard of them was last night from me. I would hate to
> have
> someone get "caught" without the Personal Fitness merit badge next April
> when they thought they were "done"...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:13:08 -0700
> From: Bruce Chandler <bhc54@YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Confusion on MB changes
>
> Mark,
>
> Here's my understanding of the situation:
>
> Jan 1, 1999 April 1, 1999
> A <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> B >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> C <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Scout A: Is a Life Scout.
> Completes all requirements for Eagle not
> later than March 31, under the OLD requirements.
>
> Scout B: Becomes a Life Scout on January 1 (or later).
> He will become an Eagle Scout under
> the NEW requirements.
>
> Scout C: Is currently a Life Scout.
> He DOES NOT complete ALL requirements for
> Eagle prior to April 1, 1999.
> He will become an Eagle Scout under
> the NEW requirements.
>
> Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> -Bruce
> ********************************************
> ---Mark Lum wrote (or least I think he did):
> >
> > Scouters:
> >
> > I'm confused about the Eagle Required changes. The grandfather
> period was stated as form Jan 1 to Apr 1 1999. Does this mean scouts
> who JOINED before then use the OLD Eagle MB requirements. And those
> JOINING after Mar 31 use the new MB requirements? And those in
> between have a choice? Or am I off-tracK?
> >
> > Rgds,
> > Mark Lum
> > www.troop55.org
> > ASM Houston, TX
> >
> >
>
> ==
> Bruce Chandler Chickasaw District
> SA, Troop 351 Northern Service Area
> Madison, AL Greater Alabama Council
>
> "Just trying to do the next right thing."
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:00:10 EDT
> From: Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Another Song Snippet from Ancient Memory
>
> Funny how memory works...or doesn't...
>
> I woke up this morning with a snippet of a song from Summer Camp '75. All
> I
> can remember is the piece that goes, "Abra- Abra- ham! ham! ham!" (repeat)
> and
> another piece that goes "Amster- Amster- sshh sshh shh!" (repeat). I seem
> to
> remember the song leader doing the first part (Abra Abra) and everyone
> yelling
> back the second (ham ham ham).
>
> Any chance anyone recognizes this and can put me out of my misery by
> filling
> in any more of the song? I wondered through Grant's site (great work,
> Grant!)
> but didn't find it. :-(
>
> YiS
> Robert Gerhard
> Cubmaster & Webelos ADL, BSA Pack 83
> Co-Leader, GSUSA Cadette Troop 2825
> Fort Worth, Texas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:13:45 -0700
> From: Michael Derleth <michael_derleth@ELI.NET>
> Subject: Scouts get heroism award: Oregon shooting
>
> Some good news for all of us today:
>
> Teen who tackled gunman in school shooting to get Scouts' highest award
>
> 8/6/98 3:18 AM By WILLIAM McCALL Associated Press Writer
>
> When shots rang out in his Springfield, Ore., high school this year,
> 17-year-old
> Jake Ryker overcame a bullet to the chest to tackle the gunman. His
> brother
> and three others quickly piled on to end the rampage.
>
> All five boys have one thing in common: they are Boy Scouts.
>
> Monday, Jake Ryker will be presented with the Boy Scouts of America's
> highest award for heroism, the Honor Medal with Crossed Palms.
>
> Fourteen-year-old Josh Ryker and the three others each will receive
> scouting's
> second-highest heroism award, the Honor Medal.
> It will mark the first time in the 88-year history of the Boy Scouts
> that five
> heroism medals have been awarded at one time. . . .
>
> Full story available at:
> http://hotnews.oregonlive.com/cgi-free/getstory.cgi?o0309_PM_OR--SchoolSho
> oting-He&OR&news&ornews
>
> --
> Michael Derleth MDerleth@ELI.NET
> ASM T14 Vancouver, WA
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:12:10 -0400
> From: Donald R Izard <dizard@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Webelos
>
> Excusse me but I have the Arrow on light sewn on my Scout Uniform
> as of 1959 - thank you very much. There was a simple W in a diamond
> that was the Webelos patch. Since bob cat was a PIN in those days,
> the W was the fouth patch to make the diamond complete:
>
> Wolf
> Bear Lion
> W
>
> AOL
>
> Scouter don
>
> On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Robert Gerhard wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-08-04 21:55:37 EDT, you write:
> >
> > << Your memory is good...when the program changed in 1967, the Lion
> > Badge was dropped and the previous WEBELOS Badge became the Arrow
> > of Light. Later, in 1986, the BSA brought back the WEBELOS Badge
> > as a rank, and created the present two-year WEBELOS Cub Scout
> > program. >>
> >
> > In that case, my memory is apparently not so good! There was no Webelos
> badge
> > for nearly 20 years? I remember working on the Activity Pins as a
> Webelos in
> > the '70s, and getting my AOL, but...could this be why I don't remember
> earning
> > that Webelos badge?
> >
> > Robert Gerhard
> > Cubmaster & Webelos ADL, BSA Pack 83
> > Co-Leader, GSUSA Cadette Troop 2825
> > Fort Worth, Texas
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:28:30 -0500
> From: Bob Taschler <bob_taschler@PUBLICITAS-USA.COM>
> Subject: Minimum requirements are the source of mediocraty.
>
> Terry Slade Asked:
>
> What are we teaching kids these days? Just do enough to get
> by...or...don't go
> any further than you have to.
>
> ***********
> Terry ,
>
> Another way to put it is "How much can I get away with and still get into
> heaven?"
> We already know what you can get away with and still be President.
>
> YIS,
> Bob Taschler
>
> P.S. With all of the hub bub over Tom Hanks film about the sacrifices the
> men
> and woman of the WWII generation made on our collective behalf, maybe
> Alexander
> Solgenytsen (SP?) was correct when he said that America has gone soft in
> it's
> heart; that most of our citizens have become too enamored with possessions
> and
> too indifferent in our moral fiber. I prefer to think not, but then I'm
> often
> told I have my head stuck in the sand. Keep the faith. It is the only
> course of
> action to take. The alternative is too ugly.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:36:31 EDT
> From: Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: bolo ties
>
> In a message dated 98-08-06 11:01:17 EDT, you write:
>
> << My troop has decided to go with bolo ties for the official troop
> neckware, so I need to find a place to get some made up (preferably
> not too expensive). If anyone has recommendations for companies to
> use, I'd appreciate hearing them >>
>
> Here's a thought: You can buy materials to make Bolo Ties from Tandy. It
> may
> be cheaper - and would definitely mean more - if you made them yourselves!
> In
> fact, with a little research, you can probably find a merit badge
> requirement
> or two that can be met in the process!
>
> YiS
> Robert Gerhard
> Cubmaster & Webelos ADL, BSA Pack 83
> Co-Leader, GSUSA Cadette Troop 2825
> Fort Worth, Texas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:37:53 EDT
> From: Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Boy Scouts Honor Shooting Hero
>
> Did anyone get this article? All I got was the header. I'd like to see
> the
> article if anyone did get it and can FWD a copy to me!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Gerhard
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:43:08 EDT
> From: Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> Subject: All Praise Randy Finder and Scouts-L!!!
>
> I just want to publicly and loudly express my never ending gratitude and
> amazement at this list and its members. From the two lines I could
> remember,
> I was directed to a web site with the song it came from within an hour.
>
> Randy, thanks. List, thanks. Y'all are amazing. Just amazing...
>
> Robert Gerhard
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:49:22 -0500
> From: Terry Slade <TMSLADE@IPGATE.ACTX.EDU>
> Subject: Eagle requirements additional
>
> Don't get me wrong..What I hate, is to see some kid with a whole
> lot of potential, some kid that could be great, settle for just
> enough to get by.
> Some scout that dropped out, for what ever reason, comes to a
> shocking realization. Oh My God!!!! I'm almost 18 and I didn't get
> my Eagle. Or was it his parents that woke him up at the last
> minute and explained why getting the Eagle would be nice. He
> then has to get the book back out to see what he is missing,
> does just enough, and Poof! We have a proud Eagle. Was this his
> best? What about the scout, whose parents hold back the
> drivers license, until he gets his Eagle? If he is a "normal" kid, he
> does the work to get the car. Nothing more, nothing less. Is this
> his best?
> The scout that does the work and becomes an Eagle because
> he wants to and not because he has to learns a lesson. If a kid
> works really hard and earns the Eagle just by passing the
> minimum requirements, but he did his best, also learned. The
> scout that earns more than the minimum to get his Eagle. They
> learned that a goal is a good thing and hard work does pay off.
> The boy that skated by in scouts and just did just the minimum
> to "earn" his Eagle also learned a lesson in life. Which would an
> employer want to hire?
> I try and teach the scouts I work with, the skills that they will
> need as adults. To do their best. Not to just get by. What kind of
> doctor do you want performing surgery on you? One that went
> to all his classes, worked hard every day, and did his best - or -
> one that at the last minute, came in and passed their final exam
> with a just passing grade? OK. I may have gone over with that
> last one.
> Yes... A scout that meets the requirements has every right to
> wear the badge. They climbed the mountain and made it to the
> top. We should congratulate them for this feat, but how they got
> to the top and what they learn along the way will only be known
> by that individual scout. I hope they learn a few things to make
> them a good parent, a great leader, a wonderful athlete, or an
> honest mechanic (I'll regret that statement).
> YiS The Mad Texan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:06:56 -0400
> From: The Gillams <a2m5u8gt@COASTALNET.COM>
> Subject: Not enough Room
>
> Last night we had our Scout Committe Meeting and it was brought to the
> attention of the committee about the lack of meeting space for the Troop.
>
> Ours is probably a unique situation, being that we have our own building
> for
> Pack and Troop meetings which is a log cabin. This is mostly where all
> meetings are held. It is located on school property and not on our
> charter
> organization property. I realize many Troops meet in places like churches
> or schools where patrols can break up into groups as the need be. We don't
> have this option. The cabin is one room approximately 25' x 37'; give or
> take a few. The heating and air is located in the open beamed ceiling so
> when in use it makes tons of noise and when you have a room full of
> people,
> well that's another story. Then add tables and chairs to the picture.
>
> In the next few months we should have nine Webelos ( + two new boys that
> we
> know of ) cross-over into the Troop, making a total of about 30-34 Scouts
> (
> 3-5 patrols) plus their leaders. It's already being said that meetings are
> not as productive as they should be with the lack of space. We are very
> proud of our cabin and feel fortunate to have it but we need more room.
>
> Now, it was suggested that maybe the each patrol or combined patrols could
> possibly meet on different week nights, three nights a month and then the
> fourth one could be a joint meeting of all patrols. Of course, someone
> said
> that is what Cubs do and these were Scouts. But how can we prevent total
> chaos within this small space. Then there is the problem of finding a
> nights since the Pack dens meet there too.
>
> We need some suggestions on viable options. Is the above situations within
> BSA national guidelines?
>
> YiS,
>
> Ginny Gillam
> Pack/Troop 164
> Edenton, NC
>
> We are known by the tracks we leave behind.....................Dakota
> proverb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:18:05 -0700
> From: Jim Lohmann <jlohmann@ADNC.COM>
> Subject: Re: Indoor Climbing
>
> We have used an indoor climbing gym as a great overnight outing for both =
> the Boy Scouts and the Cub Scouts (yes, even the 7-8 year olds). The =
> gym trained adult leaders in belay techniques, so there would be extra =
> climbing ropes available. They also provided the equipment and climbing =
> supervision for the boys. They were allowed to climb until late in the =
> night, then every bedded down in the gym itself. After breakfast the =
> following morning, more climbing. This has been one of the more =
> successful outings in the past couple of years.
> Jim Lohmann
> Scoutmaster, Troop 295 Webelos Den Leader, "Raptor Patrol", Pack
> 295
> Desert Pacific Council San Diego, CA
> Eagle Scout Class of '82 <=3D=3D/ W W W /<<<
> mailto: jlohmann@adnc.com "All my life I wanted to be somebody. I =
> realize now I should have been more specific."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:20:22 -0400
> From: "John M. Ballenger" <ballengerj@COMPUSERVE.COM>
> Subject: Goshen Scout Camp
>
> Goshen Scout Camp has Family Camping every Labor Day. It's an annual
> event and a lot of fun. You have to call the National Capitol Area Counc=
> il
> and ask them to send you a form to sign up. Their phone is 301-53-9360. =
>
> There is a fee of $25.00 plus @5.00 per person. The event sometimes fill=
> s
> up to capacity, so you should call right away if you are really intereste=
> d.
>
> John M. Ballenger
> Alexandria, VA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:20:21 -0400
> From: "John M. Ballenger" <ballengerj@COMPUSERVE.COM>
> Subject: Brownsea
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm not sure what Brownsea you are referring to. Camp Rodney, which
> is operated by the Del-Mar-Va Council, has a Brownsea program for first
> year scouts which is an excellent program. It is obviously named after
> Brownsea Island where B-P took his first group of Scouts for training. T=
> he
> Camp Rodney program is fairly intensive, but not more than the 1st year
> Scouts can take. All of the Scouts I have taken through the program have=
>
> enjoyed it immensely. The boys do three things during their week at camp=
> :
> (i) they work on the basic requiremens of Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and 1st
> Class, including Toten Chit and Fire'm Chit, (ii) they work on three Meri=
> t
> Badges, Swimming, Nature and Basketry, and (iv) they have a free period
> each day in which they can visit other sites at the Camp, e.g., the
> waterfront, archery, rifle range, swimming pool, etc. Of course they don=
> 't
> complete all of the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and 1st Class requirements, but=
>
> they complete a reasonable number of them given the time constraints.
>
> John M. Ballenger
> Alexandria, VA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:46:26 -0500
> From: Robert Losee <rlosee@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Hazing
>
> John White wrote:
>
> > On July 27th, Robert Losee sent this as part of a message:
> > > The principal enunciated by #3 seems pretty clear to me. Getting
> into
> > Cub
> > > Scouts must be solemn and dignified. This eliminates fun. So while
> many
> > > ceremonies in the literature may be fun they can't be used if we
> follow the
> > > prinicipals set forth by national. DON'T DO IT! (have fun that is)
> >
> > The issue of fun was never dealt with in the previous message. You are
> the one
> > to state this. Having been a CubMaster and Scoutmaster both, I have
> resources
> > at hand which provide all kinds of great ceremonies and games and such.
> Many
> > of these ceremonies give the boy and his parents an opportunity for
> solemn
> > understanding of the step this lad is taking.. But at the same time,
> they are
> > having a great time.
>
> Putting #3 back in the message it reads:> >> 3. It makes a frivoulous
> [sic]
> occasion of what should be a solemn,
> > >> dignified ceremony.
>
> This may be a matter of semantics but for me "solemn, dignified" can't
> mean
> laughter or grins, which for me equates with fun. My Merriam-Webster's 9th
> Collegiate tells me that solemn must be "marked by grave sedateness and
> earnest
> sobriety".
> Now a ceremony may be a "great time" like _Madam Butterfly_ is for some,
> so long
> as it is grave and sedate (and I hope sober). My point was that any
> ceremony (at
> least with Bobcats) that has people grinning, laughing, or smiling is to
> be
> staunchly avoided according to this policy statement.
>
> I don't hide the fact that I disagree with this. I think to attract boys
> we need
> to use the right bait. The right bait seems like it ought to be fun and
> not like a
> grave yard.
>
> But from a policy point of view we volunteers are restricted by this
> letter to
> solumn, dignified, grave, and sedate. In short, Fun? Don't do it.
>
> Bob Losee, SM T25 Lincoln NE
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:54:22 EDT
> From: Dick Sofian <dsofian@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Another Song Snippet from Ancient Memory
>
> On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:00:10 EDT Robert Gerhard <RAGerhard@AOL.COM>
> writes:
> ............
> >All I can remember is the piece that goes, "Abra- Abra- ham! ham! ham!"
> >(repeat) and another piece that goes "Amster- Amster- sshh sshh shh!"
> (repeat). I
> >seem to remember the song leader doing the first part (Abra Abra) and
> everyone
> >yelling back the second (ham ham ham).
> >
> >Any chance anyone recognizes this and can put me out of my misery by
> >filling in any more of the song?
>
> There were 3 Jolly Fisher-men
> There were 3 Jolly Fisher-men
> Fisher, Fisher, men, men, men
> Fisher, Fisher, men, men, men
> There were 3 Jolly Fisher-men
>
> The first ones name was Abraham
> The first ones name was Abraham
> Abra, Abra, ham, ham ham
> Abra, Abra, ham, ham ham
> The first one's name was Abraham
>
> The second ones name was Iaasic (Spelling?)
> The second ones name was Iaasic
> Ia, Ia, sic, sic sic
> Ia, Ia, sic, sic sic
> The second one's name was Iaasic
>
> The third ones name is Jacob
> The third ones name is Jacob
> Ja, Ja, cop, cop cop
> Ja, Ja, cop, cop cop
> The third ones name is Jacob
>
> The all went down to Jerico
> The all went down to Jerico
> Jeri, jeri, co, co ,co
> Jeri, jeri, co, co ,co
> The all went down to Jerico
>
> They should have gone to Amster - Sush!
> They should have gone to Amster - Sush!
> Amster, Amster - Sush! Sush! Sush!
> Amster, Amster - Sush! Sush! Sush!
> They should have gone to Amster - Sush!
>
> You musn't say that naughty word
> You musn't say that naughty word
> Naughty, Naughty, word word word
> Naughty, Naughty, word word word
> You musn't say that naughty word
>
> I'm gonna say it any how,
> I'm gonna say it any how,
> Any, any, how how how,
> Any, any, how how how,
> I'm gonna say it any how,
>
> They should have gone to Amster - Dam!
> They should have gone to Amster - Dam!
> Amster, Amster - Dam, dam! dam!
> Amster, Amster - Dam, dam! dam!
> They should have gone to Amster - Dam!
>
>
> Dick Sofian - dsofian@juno.com - dsofian@geocities.com
> Assistant Cubmaster St. Louis (MI) Cub Scout Pack 3609
> Treasurer St. Louis Boy Scout Troop 609
> Brotherhood Member, Mischigonong #89, Lake Huron Area Council
> http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/6028
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:49:37 -0500
> From: Gladys Jenner <sdjenner@FREEWWWEB.COM>
> Subject: Re: Confusion on MB changes
>
> The best way I have heard is play like the boy will turn 18 on April 1.
> If he completes everything for current Eagle requirements by that date
> then great he is done; otherwise he must work to meet newly changed
> "required MB list".
>
> I know of several boys in troops who are pushing to get Life and
> complete Eagle before deadline -- all because of Physical Fitness MB
> becoming totally ar required MB. In most of these boys would like to
> have had the "time" to further develope leadership qualities before
> advancing them, but with deadline approaching, just hope to keep them
> around long enough to develop these after Eagle.
>
> YIS - Gladys Jenner
> Only 12 days left as "Acting" SM....and counting!
> Troop 502 - Longhorn Council - Ft Worth TX
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:02:27 -0400
> From: "John M. Ballenger" <ballengerj@COMPUSERVE.COM>
> Subject: Re: Goshen Scout Camp
>
> >> The phone number you posted for NCAC HQ only had two digits in its =
>
> exchange, pls repost. <<
>
>
> National Capitol Area Council
>
> 301-530-9360
>
>
> E-mail from: John M. Ballenger, 06-Aug-1998
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:25:10 -0400
> From: "<Tom Petrik>" <EC92@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Ham Explorer Posts
>
> Contact Matt Petrik kb9ktg@kwom.com after 8/9. He's on camp staff until
> then.
>
> He was part of the birth of one in one council, moved, tried to start one
> in
> another (the leaders wanted to play Boy Scouts, not be Explorers, so it
> finally closed down- an important factor to keep in mind. One of you may
> want
> to complete Advisor training BEFORE you even hold your first meeting, and
> it
> is available in a home study course if your council tries to tell you it
> isn't).
>
> He already has a separate communications post and works with both
> Exploring
> and Venturing at the Council and Area levels, is looking to volunteer at
> the
> Region level in Venturing, and can probably advise you. He was part of
> Jamboree's K2BSA youth staff.
>
> And what he doesn't know, this old man can probably tell him the answer
> for
> you.
>
> If you want to be part of the new Venturing program - and if you expect to
> draw BS program youth instead of outsiders I would suggest it - we can
> talk
> about what type of unit you need to be.
>
> Tom Petrik
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:36:34 -0400
> From: "<Tom Petrik>" <EC92@AOL.COM>
> Subject: For the record
>
> >All persons using a current Exploring program has until December 1999
> >to complete and receive any Exploring recognition such as the GOLD
> >AWARD or any BSA award such as Historic Trails Patch. All BSA and
> >Exploring recognition programs are listed in the bin publication No.
> >23-884 called National Exploring Recognition and Award Programs.
> >
> This also includes youth in the Explorer Posts working toward Boy Scout
> Advancement. So if you have someone working toward these awards let them
> know
> that their final date wasn't 8/1/98, but is instead 12/31/99.
>
> Crank 'em through, encourage them, apply shoe leather, whatever works best
> without getting me into further YPG discussions. (Ah, for the days when my
> ex-
> marine OA Advisor took me by the shirt, pushed me against the wall, and
> just
> said, "your Eagle", I croaked, "yes?", and he responded "Finish it,
> NOW!").
>
> Tom Petrik
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:12:10 +0100
> From: Ian N Ford FRSH <addvent@DIRCON.CO.UK>
> Subject: Minimum requirements are the source of mediocrity.
>
> >
> > Terry Slade Asked:
> >
> > What are we teaching kids these days? Just do enough to get
> by...or...don't
> > go any further than you have to.
>
> BSA policy is to teach the requirements as laid out, without addition or
> deletion. (Exceptions for disability etc. are covered by guidelines and
> procedures.) So in one sense, provided the " requirements " are covered
> to the letter that is the end of it. Personally I would like to see a
> lot more discretion so that we could accommodate individual differences
> at both ends of the spectrum rather than pitching everything at a notional
> " average ability ". However, it would appear that if anything the rules
> are getting <more> prescriptive.
>
> Just a personal opinion.
>
> Ian Ford
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:41:18 -0400
> From: Joe Ray Hawkins <joerhawkins@ABTS.NET>
> Subject: Re: Webelos
>
> > Excusse me but...bobcat pin...
> <<...when the program changed in 1967, the Lion
> Badge was dropped and the previous WEBELOS Badge became the Arrow
> of Light. Later, in 1986, the BSA brought back the WEBELOS Badge
> as a rank, and created the present two-year WEBELOS Cub Scout
> program. >>
> >I remember working on the Activity Pins as a Webelos in
> >the '70s, and getting my AOL, but...could this be why I don't remember
> earning
> >that Webelos badge?
>
> In addition, from looking at the 'Official History' of Cub Scouting,
> I've discovered other things that we did - either as a part of the test
> program for National - or because the program was in transition...
> I went from Wolf, Bear, Lion, then (almost) a year as a Webelos
> Cub Scout - then Direct into Boy Scouts in June (at 10 - 1/2 plus
> years of age). I had to wait until I was eleven to earn my Tenderfoot.
> I had four books, a Wolf, Bear, Lion and a recently published Webelos
> book, although no Webelos 'badge' (but all 12 activity pins). But
> the official word today is that Cub Scouts in those years was a three
> year program. The fourth year service star - is it in error- a fraud, or
> was my Pack slow to adopt the first year Webelos program (still in
> error),
> or early to adopt the second year program? When I first started to work
> with Cub Scouts (more than a decade later) I went to the council office
> to have someone explain it to me. This was after working with Cubs in
> another state/council and learning of the new four year program that was
> available in Scouts. My Webelos had been the second class of full four
> year Cub Scouts for this Pack. But this was after the first wave of
> consolidations in the early '80's - and no one knew our Pack's
> or Council's history of the transition. I have supporting
> documents that show four years registration as a Cub and the awards
> (this was from the days when someone typed all the cards).
> I also was able to verify that we were one of the first in our area to
> join the two programs, although I did not move up as soon as I
> received my AOL. Apparently back then, councils had more liberty in
> how quickly they rolled out and implemented new programs than they do
> today.
> This would explain why our memories of the same time period are different
> (without crediting our memories <g> ). Are there any others out there
> that
> went through the same transition going from Cub Scouting to Boy
> Scouts years ago? If so, I'd like to hear about it.
> YIS
> Joe Ray Hawkins
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:47:50 -0500
> From: Robert Losee <rlosee@UNLINFO.UNL.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Eagle requirements additional
>
> > Yes... A scout that meets the requirements has every right to
> > wear the badge. They climbed the mountain and made it to the
> > top. We should congratulate them for this feat, but how they got
> > to the top and what they learn along the way will only be known
> > by that individual scout. I hope they learn a few things to make
> > them a good parent, a great leader, a wonderful athlete, or an
> > honest mechanic (I'll regret that statement).
>
> I agree with this. My experience as a youth was that my folks more or less
> laid it on the line that I was going to get Eagle. In some ways I felt
> they earned more than I had as my self motivation to earn it was not
> there.
>
> But I learned a few things from the experience and now I'm the SM putting
> in an average of 80hours/month at scouting events so far this year, while
> a couple other Eagle dads aren't really helping very much. Who deserved
> it? Who deserves it? Who knows.
>
> I find it disheartening the number of times on this list people make
> statements about worthiness of certain scouts getting the award. I think
> we do a grave disservice making judgments about the worthiness of an Eagle
> scout. I'm reminded of the story of Jacob, of the Abraham, Isaac, and
> Jacob fame. Jacob, a scoundrel who cheats his brother Esau out of his
> birthright and high tails it to a foreign country is the one judged worthy
> by God and given a new name of Israel which is retained or reclaimed
> thousands of years later by a nation-state. This story, others in history,
> and some that I've seen myself keep me out of the judgment game. If they
> earn the rank give it to 'em and let's let scout and God decide if the
> boy is worthy to have gotten it, and the man is worthy enough to continue
> to honor it.
>
> YiS, Bob Losee, SM of T25, Lincoln NE
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:57:54 EDT
> From: "G. John Marmet" <GMarmet@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Webelos
>
> That simple W in a diamond was not a Webelos rank patch, that is it was
> not an
> award and, at least orginally, was not worn as a pocket rank patch.
>
> The W in a diamond was an insigina of the Webelos den. It was worn on the
> right sleeve where the den numeral went. My citation? The "Lion-Webelos
> Cub
> Scout Book", copyright 1954, printed 1959, inside back cover.
>
> The only indication of Webelos Achievement was the Webelos award. At that
> time the Webelos award was an arrow with rays radiating from it. Yes, we
> now
> call it the Arrow of Light, but then it was called the Webelos Badge.
> Citation? Same as above, inside front cover.
>
> Yours in Scouting,
>
> G. John Marmet
> ASM T156, Glenview, IL
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:40:23 -0700
> From: Frank Sharpy <kent@EFN.ORG>
> Subject: Re: SCOUTS-L Digest - 4 Aug 1998 to 5 Aug 1998
>
> August 6, 1998
> I stole this from our morning paper this morning. It is kinda good to know
> that we are making a difference. If I have violated a copyright, I am
> sorry. I think we all can use positive news once in a while.
>
> Frank Sharpy
>
> Eugene, OR
> 8/6/98
>
> Thurston's heroes win high honors
>
> By ERIC MORTENSON <Picture>
> The Register-Guard
>
>
> It seems unlikely that there's a way to be prepared, as the Boy Scout
> motto
> would have it, for a gunman in a trench coat entering a high school
> cafeteria and blasting away with a semiautomatic rifle.
>
> Nonetheless, local Scout council executive Jerry Dempsey says it's more
> than a coincidence that five of the people who subdued and disarmed
> Thurston High School shooting suspect Kip Kinkel this past spring were Boy
> Scouts.
>
> Scouting promotes ideals such as heroism, courage and serving others,
> Dempsey said.
>
> "These are high-minded ideals that suggest that a Scout takes action," he
> said. "He doesn't just talk about these things, but he does them."
>
> On Monday night, the five will receive awards for heroism.
>
> Jake Ryker, 17, who led the charge despite being wounded in the chest,
> will
> receive Scouting's highest award for heroism: the Medal of Honor with
> Crossed Palms.
>
> The medal is given to Scouts who have shown unusual heroism and
> extraordinary skill or resourcefulness in saving lives at extreme risk to
> themselves. The medal has been awarded only 125 times since the Boy Scouts
> of America was founded in 1910.
>
> "It's very rare," Dempsey said. "In my 38 years with the Boy Scouts, it's
> the first time I've seen it given."
>
> The award will be presented by Jake's father, Robert Ryker, a U.S. Navy
> diver and a former Eagle Scout in the troop Jake Ryker belongs to.
>
> Jake Ryker's younger brother, Josh, will receive the Honor Medal,
> Scouting's second-highest award. Brothers Douglas and David Ure and Adam
> Walburger also will receive the Honor Medal. The Rykers and Ures are
> members of Troop 51; Walburger is with Explorer Post 55.
>
> Jake Ryker's girlfriend, Jennifer Alldredge, will attend the ceremony
> Monday night. It will be held at 7 at the Thurston Christian Church, 6680
> Thurston Road, Springfield. The public is welcome.
>
> The ceremony will be the first time in Scouting history that five honor
> medals are presented at the same time.
>
> Other people have been honored for their actions in subduing and disarming
> the gunman or aiding others, including students Joshua Pearson, Travis
> Weaver and Tiffany Wright, and teachers James Crist and Bill Duffy. The
> ceremony Monday, however, involves only the Boy Scouts.
>
> "It says that Scouting prepares young men to take action," Dempsey said.
> "They learn a way of life which sometimes results in courageous actions.
>
> "They met a lot of tests, worked together and exercised leadership," he
> said. "It makes a difference when it's time to act."
>
> The medals have pins at the top, a red ribbon and a gold medallion about
> the size of a 50-cent piece, Dempsey said. The boys also will receive
> certificates and a patch to wear above the left pocket of their Boy Scout
> uniforms.
>
> Two students were shot to death and 24 wounded when a gunman opened fire
> at
> Thurston High School on May 21 - Jake Ryker's birthday.
>
> The Scouts were sitting at a table in the cafeteria when the gunman walked
> in and began firing. Jake Ryker pushed his girlfriend aside, then realized
> she'd been wounded.
>
> "I saw her shot and said, `That's enough,' " he said in an interview two
> days after the shootings.
>
> "I pushed Jen over and tried to get her behind me. I'm pretty sure that's
> when I got hit."
>
> He charged and tackled the gunman when he heard the suspect's rifle click,
> indicating that the 50-round clip was empty.
>
> "I heard that click, and it was as loud as if someone was banging on a
> brass gong," he said afterward. "And then I remember knocking him down."
>
> The other boys followed close behind. The suspect pulled a pistol from his
> waistband and managed to fire one shot before being disarmed. The bullet
> hit Jake Ryker in his left index finger; only later did he realize he'd
> been wounded in the chest as well.
>
> Kinkel, 15, a freshman at Thurston, was arrested and charged with killing
> his parents and with killing the two students at school. The four charges
> of aggravated murder are included on a 58-count indictment. He's expected
> to stand trial next spring.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SCOUTS-L Digest - 5 Aug 1998 to 6 Aug 1998
> *************************************************
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City |
