Re: Who hires & fires Assistant Scoutmasters?

The literature I am referring to is "The Annual Charter Agreement.....",
item # 28-182G. This agreement, which is signed by a representative of
the chartered organization and a representative of BSA reads in part:

"The chartered organization agrees to:

(paragraph 4) "Select a unit committee of parents and members of the
chartered organization (minimum of three) who will screen and select unit
leaders who meet the organization's standards as well as the leadership
standards of the BSA. (The committee chairman must sign all leadership
applications.)"

This is the document which identifies the responsibilites to which the
chartered organization and the local council commit annually. You will
notice that the statement regarding the selection and screening of "unit
leaders" is unqualified. It does not state that the committee will select
"some" leaders and delegate the remainder of leadership selection to
anyone, including the so-called "CEO", SM, CM or Post Advisor. The
COMMITTEE, whose membership is specified, is SOLELY responsible for the
selection of unit leaders. It is not to be delegated or otherwise
appropriated by any other group or individual. This is a clear and
unambiguous statement in the fundamental document linking the chartering
organization with BSA.

You stated below, "A Troop can be run anyway the group of adults involved
wants it to be run." and "Not correct, the committee's job is to support
and advise." It is clear from the statement I quoted above from the
"Annual Charter Agreement...." form that these two statements are
inaccurate. The committee's job is mandated to be more than advisement and
support, the committee is wholly responsible for screening and selection of
leaders, ALL registered leaders. While a unit has some latitude in
organizing, structuring and implementing its program, it does not have the
latitude you are claiming, namely, delegating screening, selection and
final supervision of adult leaders to anyone.


Again, I repeat, that this suggestion that the SM is some sort of CEO who
is responsible for selection and ultimate supervision of ANY adult
leadership is a fundamental misrepresentation of the relationship which is
enetered into by the chartering organization and BSA.

Brad Price

At 04:21 PM 4/29/98 CST, you wrote:
>On 29 Apr 98 at 13:49, Bradford Price wrote:
>
>> This isn't accurate. You should read the literature describing the
>> relationship between the chartering organization and the unit, particularly
>> regarding the responsibilty for recruiting and supervising unit leaders.
>>
>
>Please be more specific. What literature are you referring to? I
>have read everything I can get my hands on and what I said is
>correct.
>
>> The unit leader, CM, SM or Post Advisor, is NOT a CEO and should not
>> attempt to function as a CEO as the positions were never intended to be
>> conceived of as such. This is a faulty interpretation based on the
>> individual preference of some adult leaders who have their own agendas for
>> their units and is not suggested or supported by the tradition or current
>> structure of the Chartering Organization/Unit relationship.
>>
>
>I strongly disagree. the Scoutmaster being vested as the Chief
>Executive Officer of a Troop is a true and accurate statement. You
>are confusing the terms. The Chief Executive Officer of a troop is
>not the same as a Chief Executive Officer of a corporation or the
>Chief Executive Officer of a government. The similarity is that
>their is one individual vested with the responsibility of seeing that
>the business of the organization is carried out, and for a Troop that
>is the Scoutmaster. Tradition and the current structure of the
>Charter Organization/Unit relationship support this.
>
>This is not to say that the Scoutmaster does everything, he certainly
>needs advice and help, lots of help. Immediately following your
>signature I have included my reply to another rebuttal to help clarify
>my point.
>
>> Brad Price
>> Eagle, Brotherhood
>> District Adv. Chair, Troop Committee Chair, Unit Commissioner, JLT Course
>> Director, Summer Camp Chaplain; Former CM and SM
>> .......and I used to be a Beaver................
>>
>>
>
>On 29 Apr 98 at 10:28, Ron Raab-Long wrote:
>
>> Jesse,
>> Sorry Jesse, but I beg to differ. The SM is not the CEO of a troop.
>> The SM is answerable to the Committee. The SM serves at the
>> pleasure of the Committee and CO, and can be removed by them.
>>
>
>A Troop can be run anyway the group of adults involved wants it to be
>run. You see things your way because you are the Committee Chairman.
>I once had a committee chairman who wanted to completely run the
>troop. It was his slant on things that he held the highest position,
>therefore everyone reported to him and did exactly what he wanted,
>even down to where and when the scouts camped. My biggest battle with
>him was when I allowed the Patrol Leaders Council to determine the
>coming years calendar.
>
>The Scoutmaster is *not* answerable to the Troop Committee and he does
>*not* server at the *pleasure* of the Troop Committee. It is the
>Charter Organization Representative in cooperation with the Committee
>Chair to recruit a Scoutmaster to run the troop. Once that
>Scoutmaster is in place there are only two ways he can be forcefully
>removed, (1) the local council can refuse to renew his membership in
>the BSA, and (2) the Head of the Charter Organization (COH) can remove
>him from the office of Scoutmaster or even ban him from participating
>the Troop completely. The Troop Committee can make a recommendation
>to the COH but the COH actually does the removing. This works the
>other way to, a Scoutmaster can make a recommendation to the COH that
>a Committee Chair be removed and the COH can do it!
>
>> The SM can recruit his assistants, and recommend whomever he
>> wants, but the CC approves them. If you have a good Scoutmaster,
>> who's a good judge of character, this is never a problem. But
>> sometimes they make mistakes. As the CC, I have to put my signature
>> on the application. I will (and have) refuse to sign adult
>> applications for those I feel would be a detriment to our troop. My
>> perogative.
>>
>
>If I were the scoutmaster of your troop and you refused an ASM
>applicant I recruited, you would immediately be looking for a new
>Scoutmaster. What makes your judgement better than that of the
>Scoutmaster? It sounds like *you* are actually the Scoutmaster but
>you have chosen to wear the CC patch.
>
>> In an ideal world, no one would be hired as an AS that shouldn't be.
>> However, sometimes we have to correct our mistakes. It is the
>> Committee's job to correct these mistakes.
>>
>
>Not correct, the committee's job is to support and advise.
>
>> I'm always amazed during training when the SM learns that he doesn't
>> run the whole show. Its even more fun when the CC and SM are at
>> training together.
>>
>
>Agreed, the Scoutmaster doesn't run the whole show, he shouldn't have
>to, but he is responsible for it. The Scoutmaster's central
>responsibility is training the scouts into leaders, and to that end he
>recruits ASM's to help him. The *scouts* should run the Troop, but
>alas being children they need help carrying out the business of the
>troop either because they need to learn how or because they are not of
>legal age to take on such responsibility, so the Troop Committee
>exists to help them. Why do you think the Troop Committee has
>positions like fund raising, advancement, recruiting, secretary,
>treasurer, etc.? The central job of the Committee Chair is to recruit
>people onto the Troop Committee so that the members of the Troop
>Committee can support the boys.
>
>In closing, the Scoutmaster is the person vested as the Chief
>Executive Officer of the Troop. You may not like that, but that is
>the way it is.
>
>> YIS,
>> Ron Raab-Long
>> CC, Troop 903
>> Dover, Delaware
>>
>> J.E. Cross III wrote:
>>
>> > I must agree with Mr. Moser. It is and should be the
>> > scoutmaster's prerogative to "hire and fire" assistant
>> > scoutmasters. The scoutmaster is the person vested as the Chief
>> > Executive Officer of the troop. The scoutmaster has a troop
>> > committee to help him accomplish his vision for the troop and to
>> > serve as an oversight body. If the troop committee doesn't like
>> > what a scoutmaster is doing they should address the issue directly
>> > to the scoutmaster. Any scoutmaster who lets his troop committee
>> > do an end-run around him by countermanding one of his decisions
>> > has lost control and needs to resign for the good of the
>> > organization.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>DISCLAIMER: I speak for no-one except myself.
>/S/ Jesse E. Cross, III - Systems Analyst
>Mervyn H. Sterne Library, University of Alabama at Birmingham
>e-mail:jcross@uab.edu
>Shelter a child and you protect him for a day. Teach a child
>integrity and self-reliance and you protect him for a lifetime!
>

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