Re: Am I crazy? (long)
Lisa Varner (lvarner@FREENET.COLUMBUS.OH.US)
Mon, 22 Jan 1996 19:07:29 -0500
I will attempt to answer everyone who wrote to the list in one letter to
save our daily limit. Those who wrote to me personally I will answer
personally as time permits (I am limited!).
Well, I want to thank those who gave me some suggestions and support on
this issue. Apparently it had been bothering me more than I realized.
While I didn't have time to respond this morning I did log on and read the
suggestions. (I forgot to mention, my girls are 14 and in 8th grade.)
> From: "BERTRAND E. BERUBE" <bberube@CONNECTI.COM>...
> I will tell you that many time scouting misses the mark.
This is a concern. But I fell in this instance, the leaders missed the mark.
> I used to be a girl scout, and we never went shopping. What does
> shopping have to do with anything?
Here's the activities taken from the patch book (we asked them to try to
do at least one)...
Jot down at least five things you and your friends like to spend
money on. Go comparison shopping and compare the cost, quality, care,
and/or safety of these items. Then, design a booklet that gives teens
tips on how to get the best buys for their money. You might include what
to consider when purchasing these items, where and when to shop, fads, and
advertising. Share this booklet with others.
or...
Take a shopping trip. Explore the costs, quality, care and design of
clothing. Choose one type of garment to research, such as a coat, dress,
suit, slacks, or jacket. Look for at least five examples of this item in
stores or catalogs. Make a chart that compares design, color cleaning and
care requirements, fabric (including fiber content), and cost. Note the
differences in the various samples you survey. Compare all the pros and
cons of the samples on your chart, then decide which one you would buy,
and why.
My 01 (head leader) made a chart for each activity and they could fill out
whichever they choose.
> Try this lesson on for grabs:
> Give each girl a notebook or a 5 x 7 index card. Give them
> say a $1,000.00 "credit card" and tell them they have to do the
> following:
I really liked this idea, just too late for me to try and implement it.
> From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG>...
> Even if the thing turns upside down, don't forget that afterwards or at
> lunch you can get up a discussion of how things are going or how they
> went and see what can be learned. Evaluate!
This turned out to be good advice. I will do my best to see that we take
a few minutes to do this tomorrow. The feeling I got while we were leaving...
8 girls went. 4 thought "too much time, all money was spent by 1:30".
> From: Glen Rogers <beargr@southwind.net>...
> It is quite a journey to educate and train adults, especially without their
> realizing it.
Well, we have 14 active girls in the troop, which is unusual at this age,
so we must be doing something right. I do try to set an example for the
girls and point out the other side of things, but raising leaders is a
whole different ballgame! Especially since many have been in scouts
longer than I have. They do listen because I try to present intelligent
ideas and have proven myself to be interested in the girls welfare and
future, but they still have final word. How often do have to raise the
issues and make new suggestions for what I think is not right? Every
meeting.
> From: "Settummanque, the blackeagle (MAJ) Mike Walton"
> <blackeagle@HCC-UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>...
lv> I personally wanted to turn it into more of an event then taking a bunch
lv> of girls to spend their money.
> Please don't do this...(I can hear Jessiann in the background yelling "this is
> coming from the person that turns EVERY trip into an educational lesson??").
Mike, while I value your opinion, I do have to disagree with you on this.
I said event, not educational experience. I have taken the scouts Ice
Skating, to the Zoo to see the 1,000,000 lights for Xmas, camping (to have
a whole weekend of free time) and what educational experience was that?
Nothing, just to help the group bond and have some fun. But shopping is a
different story. Perhaps I need to have explained more. Their original
idea was to trip (4 days to a week) to Mall of America! To which I flatly
refused. I am not taking family vacation time away from my family to take
these kids shopping! I told them no malls, and no theme parks. We can go
anywhere else, but if there is a mall or theme park near where we go, a
side trip one day would be fine, no problem. But, I will not trip for a
week to a mall! That will not be the sole purpose of any trip I will go on.
> This is one of the true beauties of belonging to a "group". If you cheat them
> out of deciding on something like this, they'll think that you have "other
> reasons" for making them go through the brainstorming session and next time,
> you won't get the results you recieved this time...just "what you think they
> should do".
Actually, I'm usually the one leader (out of 4) that does manage to get
them where they want to go. The other leaders have shot things down that
they themselves don't want to do. And the girls know this. They usually
come to me to push it with the other leaders. They know I will. But I do
pick my battles. I have a very good relationship with my other leaders,
but we surely don't agree on everything. That's waht makes the world go
'round!
> pretty well count on "window shopping" taking any time from two to five
> hours, with breaks for food, rest, and "discussing fittings" (whatever
> *that* entails). My daughter Amanda, the last time Jessi and I took her to
> the Mall, took her sweet time in EACH AND EVERY STORE looking at clothing
> that she and her stepmother thought "would be nice to wear". So, I can see
> the time period being elongated for this activity.
Well, as it turned out. Only 2 girls bought clothes (they went around
with a leader/parent of one girl). The rest of the girls didn't even LOOK
at clothes unless you count t-shirts in the Disney store. Shopping with
friends is much different than shopping with a parent.
> Remember, they WILL be going to school on Tuesday, and when they do, part of
> their conversation with others will be "going to the mall with the Scouts"
> (except it will be "going to the Mall with Steph and Mary...they're both in
> my Scout group, and it was really rad to go to the Mall and this is what we
> saw and .....")
True, but I don't need to be concerned with how our girls express
themselves to others about troop activities as our girls enjoy the
troop so much, it is usually known around school when we have an activity!
> go to the Mall office and have them to convert the money into gift
> certificates instead.
Sorry, but this idea would not work. They would not agree to this, I
assure you. That would say, we don't trust you to carry your money.
> But you ARE teaching them, Lisa, you ARE. You're teaching them how to come
> to a decision as a group, how to plan their visit, and how to carry it out.
Got me there.
> You've also given them some confidence that everything they choose to do won't
be
> automatically "ruled out" by you and the other leaders just because
> "it's not a girl scouting thing" or "you won't get a badge for
> doing this".
Well, here's where we agree. I personally feel that NO activity should be
ruled out. I always do my best to make sure they do get to do what they
want. (We are going to plan a murder mystery dinner next month! Making
costumes and all!)
At this level of GS's, Cadette, national has taken us out of our leader
roles and we are now to be technically called advisors. I help them do
what ever they want, but I do have to advise.
> From: Ian N Ford <ianford@DIRCON.CO.UK>...
> I am one of the adult staff members for the BSA Sumnmer Camp her in UK
> and the Scouts like to hit the mall during their free weekend. They are
> taken by bus to the mall , which is about eight miles from the camp. The
> boys like to shop , lurk , eat junk food etc too , and yes, it is whole
> afternoon activity.
But the difference is, they go for camp. Shopping isn't the whole event.
> From: Charlie Thorpe <charlie2@RO.COM>...
> You raise an interesting question! What DO we do when the program starts
> to take a direction that we are uncomfortable with?
I can tell you what I will do. We went, we had fun, we're done. Case
closed. One other leader said to me, "We should make this a yearly
event", if I was eating, I would've choked. I told her "No, I don't think
so." She said, "I'm sure we could come up with other reasons to come down
here." I will not be attending, once is enough. And I will surely tell them
why if it comes up again.
> I am embarrassed to admit that I don't know enough about the Girl Scout
> program to be able to help with a specific reality check. How DO you tell
> whether any given Girl Scout activity has any "redeeming program value" or
> not?
Like Michael Bowman said, Evaluate! The girls will know what they got out
of it. They are smart kids.
> I have always felt that if any event doesn't meet the minimum sanity check
> then we shouldn't bother with it: at best we are wasting valuable Scouting
> time, at worst we might be distorting the program to the point that we are
> teaching the wrong things.
The patch programs have become so diverse that NOTHING that's legal cannot
be considered scouting. I feel we should "bother" but sometimes we need
to redirect an activities purpose.
> IMHO, the group's personality is made up of a number of things: the needs/
> abilities of the kids AND the adults, the needs/resources/involvement of
> the charter partner, the social context of the unit (inner city, rural,
> common/diverse demographic traits, etc.), and all the other little things
> that come together to make each unit unique. Obviously, a precise
> definition of the group personality is a moving target - it is always
> changing as members themselves change and "traditions" (fads <g>) come and
> go.
Well, our girls don't go, they stay. We do have their interest, since we
try to accomodate what ever they want to do. And I was right, the girls
that did not have money, did not show.
> If I were holding the Scoutmaster (unit leader) job, then I would have to
> be willing to participate for the activity to go forward.
The 01 (head leader) was the only leader (out of 4) who could not go. It was
up to us to make this event go. I could've backed out, but would've
proved nothing to the girls in this instance, just that I didn't want to
do what they wanted to do. I support them in what ever they want to do,
but I try to advise on why or how when needed.
> From: Lynn Whited <whited@ASTROSUN.TN.CORNELL.EDU>
> My oldest daughters troop (Cadette) went to our local mall, to work on
> some badge work. They did a comparison shopping activity... (snip!..)
> got a tour and hair/make-up advise. Finally they spent some time
> shopping...But they had a limit of $30.00 that the girls could spend.
Every girl that went, spent every penny they brought. Right up to
throwing their change in the fountain on the way out. My daughter was the
only one who spent under $28.00. (Because she didn't have it.) I gave
her $5.00 for lunch, and $10 came from her own money. When we got home
she told me she was glad she hadn't taken more, 'cause she knows she
would've spent it on nothing. (Feather in my cap?)
> someone with the group that has First Aid /CPR.
Me and one of the other leaders that went are both current.
> Another course is to talk to the SUM and have her disapprove
> of the activity (if she agrees with you), and make suggestions on what
> can gain her approval (the activities).
Well, here's the kicker...my 01 IS the Service Unit Manager. Fine pickle,
huh? What she decides IS the final word.
Thanks again for the sanity check, it has helped to hear other views.
YiS,
Lisa Varner << lvarner@freenet.columbus.oh.us >>
Haven't been there. Don't want to go. Don't need another t-shirt!
Terry Howerton Sakima Group, Inc. SCOUTER Magazine Kansas City | 
