Re: Advice to Commissioner " Jim " (Long)

I'm not a BSA Commissioner, but I have been in a similar role as a Group
Scout Leader in British Scouting, and have some knowledge of the BSA
situation. Some of you might find parts a bit controversial, but that was
the idea, wasn't it? To get us thinking rather than find a " right " answer.
So here goes with my advice to Jim :

-----

Well Jim... As I see it this hazing issue needs to be addressed. I'm
assuming that the story checks out ? You've asked the kids how camp went and
heard sone stories thast concern you ... What I hear you say is there has
not been a " complaint " but a few kids are unhappy. I know you have built
up a relationship with Ivan, but this could be a tough counselling job. Are
you OK dealing with that ?

You will need to work out a line you are comfortable with. But try not to be
too judgmental. This guy has good points,too. OK, he's a bit of a dinosaur
and not the most sensitive of characters. But he's got a big troop, which
means he must have something the kids like.

Why not get Ivan round home, just the two of you. Take the phone off the
hook or switch on the ansafone. Sit him down and ask him how the last
campout went. Hopefully he would say something about the " initiation "
which would show what his feeling were. If not a question like " What's this
I heard about swamp monsters ? " might be an opening gambit. I'd then
point out that BSA has strict Youth Protection Guidelines - how did he
think that they applied in this situation ?

Of course Ivan might say something like " Yeah, I know, don't shower at the
same time as the kids. What's that got to do with the kids having a bit of
fun and initiating the new kids. Makes a man of em ... never did me any
harm, why when I was a lad ... "

If it were me { and I nearly said those forbidden words " If I were you"
then ... } I'd tell my true personal story about how as a young Scout I was
the victim of such an experience, and was so upset that I very nearly quit
and had my parents bring me home. The stress also brought on an asthma
attack. I might add that I still despise the Scoutmaster who condoned it
nearly thirty years on, so deep was the impression it made on me.

[ Incidently, I swore at age eleven that if I ever became a Scoutmaster this
bullying would not happen in my troop. It didn't. I'm fairly easy-going, but
all my Scouts knew that this sort bullying <would> get them on the next
train home.]

I guess if I were talking to Ivan I'd also point out that if a kid got
injured or somebody complained he's on his own. BSA won't back him if he
breaches YPG. He's up sticky creek without a paddle. Very messy. These days
juries in the US can make some very nice awards for " psychological
distress " and parents know this. Or what if one of the guys smeared in
peanut butter is sensitive to bug bites or gets bitten by a critter ? Or,
like I did, has an asthma attack ? Can you imagine taking a kid covered
with peanut butter and moss into the emergency room ? That would get the
troop noticed.

But you will have to work out an approach you are happy with. I nearly used
the words " if I were you " a few minutes ago. Don't do that with Ivan. I'm
not you, and you're not Ivan. There are a lot of right ways to do things in
Scouting, but what works for me might not work for you or Ivan.

OK, I think you share my personal view that any adult who permits this sort
of bullying is a pretty poor Leader, and needs to be straightened out or
else thrown out. You feel he must be pretty insensitive not to realise the
risk of emotional damage to kids who may already be apprehensive, if not
actually homesick, and are not used to camp routine. This is the reality
with most boys on their first Scout camp, even if they hide it. And the
tough guys often hurt the most inside.

But you won't help him by yelling and screaming. Keep calm. Listen. Try not
to get mad ... and if you <do> get mad back off. Say you need to go to the
bathroom and cool off there.

But remember your job is to help him , not to dump on him like a ton of
bricks. He may genuinely not know, or understand, how what in " my days "
were traditional troop initiations are now regarded as hazing and even as
psychological abuse. It sounds like the whole unit leadership would benefit
from YPG training. I'd ask the Chairman if you could arranmge a session for
them all, the Committee and the Leaders. Posibly go to a PLC (by prior
invitation) and discuss the issue of YPG with the Scouts.

If after that Ivan still doesn't get the message and initiations continue he
may have to go ... but that's not our decision. But we'll talk about that if
the problem arises.

------
Now then , Jim. regarding the dungeons and dragons ... Let me say that I
can't see a problem if the Scouts <decided> to have a weekend away without
any advancement. You look surprised. Well, I see it this way :

Many kids today are under immense pressures to do compete and succeed. They
are expected to be A grade students, on the winning sports team, sing solo
in the choir and if they are a Scout to make Eagle before they are thirteen.
OK, I exaggerate ... but some parents do pressurise their kids. Some kids
are so programmed they never stop running from one activity to the next. And
a few crack up under the strain, or take drugs or sniff glue.

So I believe that at times it is quite legitimate to have a " fun " weekend
away with your friends at camp, just being buddies and having a good time.
Did the PLC <plan> to have an easy weekend ? If so, that is fine provided
that elsewhere in the troop program there are opportunities to advance.

OK Jim, <get up of the floor>, have another coffee and let's look at the
facts ...

Do you think there is actually an " advancement problem " with troop 666 ?

Get out the Advancement Reports for the past six months. Have about 75% of
the Scouts earned a rank or a merit badge ? I'd say that was good. Less
than 50% I'd be concerned and ask questions about their program planning.

Look at the number of Eagle Scouts the troop has produced ... there must be
some advancement. Although I'd be worried if all the Eagles were the sons
of Leaders or Committee people, because that might suggest that some kids
were being coached and pushed, whilst the other kids were left bouncing
basketballs in the school gym. Sadly it does happen.

Look at the troop's camping record. Have they participated in Camporees and
Council activities ? Are there adventurous activities for the older Scouts,
maybe a Venture Crew ? Have all last year's new Scouts been away on at
least one weekend camp ? Or most of them ?

But it's worth keeping a discrete eye on things. Maybe ask Ivan and the SP/L
what their camping plans for the year are. Turn the conversation to last
year and see how they thought it went.

You might want to talk to the ASMs quietly. They are keen , but they need to
realise that if you push Scouts too hard they often burn out and quit. I
like the support vs challenge theory. If you are teaching a kid to swim and
throw him into twelve feet of water that's pretty strong on challenge. Often
he will start to swim. But if not, you'd better be prepared to jump in
quick, and get wet in the process.

But if you put him in the three feet end with a rubber ring and hold his
hand that's pretty good for support, but at some stage you have to take away
the rubber ring and let him swim on his own. Otherwise there's no challenge.

Well, I guess being a Scoutmaster is like that. If you don't challenge the
boys they get bored and quit. If you put on too much pressure the challenge
becomes an insuperable obstacle - and they quit. You need to know the kids
and challenge them to reach just beyond their grasp.

By the way, talking about Youth Protection and psychological pressures on
kids, let me tell you a true story . Details have been changed to protect
the innocent.

About ten years ago I had a kid in a troop I was responsible for who I will
call John. John was under a lot of pressure from his Dad, himself a high
flyer in his chosen profession, to acieve excellence in everything he did.
Unfortunately John was not academic. I personally think he had some sort of
mild learning disability, but his father would not consider the possibility
that his kid was anything other than lazy. Significantly, John started off
by doing very well in the troop. He was friends with the SM's son, and they
would do things together away from the troop. Then John's interest trailed
off. He said that there were problems at home. Dad was always complaining
that John's school grades were never good enough, he never did enough piano
practice, his friends were not " nice " enough, his clothes were not smart
enough ... So his dad " grounded " him, and he was not allowed to come to
Scouts for a month. I telephoned the father, and thought I had him see
reason. John came back, but things were not going well. His behaviour at
troop meetings changed and he seemed much less lively.

Soon after that John left home and turned up on the Scoutmaster's door at
2.00 am. He refused to go home, so after a long discussion the SM finally
persuaded John to let him call the police, who took the kid home. A few
months later John left home again, walked into the local police station and
asked how he could get himself "in care " , and in fact ended up in a
residential centre. We lost touch, but I heard that John had been in a few
minor scrapes with the police, had experimented with drugs and generally
had a hard time. I hope he managed to sort himself eventually. He was a nice
kid.

But that's enough chat ... let me know how you get on, and I'm always here
if you need me. Good luck !

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian N Ford
AGSL 25th Greenwich (Our Lady of Grace) Scout Group
ASM Troop 401 (American School in London)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

• Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
• Next message
• Previous message